Another new cartridge from Winchester

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rangerbob

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As news from the SHOT Show breaks, I see that Winchester has introduced the 350 Legend cartridge. It is basically a 223 case blown out to a straight wall case and loaded with polymer tipped 35 caliber bullets. It looks like a 450 Bushmaster, except smaller. It is very reminiscent of the old 351 Winchester lengthened with a tipped bullet. It's available in the XPR rifle and should work in an Ar-15 platform with he right magazine. I gather it's intended for those states, like Louisiana, that require a straight wall case of 35 caliber or bigger for primitive hunting. It would be bad news in an AR style pistol or carbine for home defense. The new cartridges never cease to amaze me! Bob! 8)
 

Three50seven

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From what I've read about it, it's essentially a rimless .357 Maximum. I can see it being an effective AR cartridge for hogs and deer. If it takes hold and becomes fairly mainstream like the 300 BLK did, I wouldn't mind having a rifle chambered in it.
 

Tenbore

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In ten years nobody will know it ever existed, if anyone knew in the first place.
 

Snake45

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Three50seven said:
From what I've read about it, it's essentially a rimless .357 Maximum.
Well, the old .38 "Super Cooper" (also based on the .223 case) was basically a .357 Mag in a 1911-sized package, so a little more case might well put you into .357 Max territory.

I wonder why no one came up with it before? :?
 

wwb

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Maybe something they worked up for the military to replace the 5.56 and it was turned down. They figured, "Well, as long as we have all that time and effort into it...."
 

rangerbob

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Since I already reload 357 Maximums, changing to a 223 shell holder should make loading the 350 Legend a snap with the appropriate bullets. I suspect CFE Black or AA1680 might be the powder of choice and I use 1680 for the Maximum. Bob!! :wink:
 

SteelBlue

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Makes perfect sense to me. The largest bullet in a .223 case. It's like taking the concept of the 300 BLK all the way. Hopefully will cycle nicely in a semi-auto.
 

grobin

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Looks like the rebranding of yet another failed cartridge gone wildcat. Will it takeoff after being reincarnated or fizzle like the short magnums? Time will tell.
 

roofinspector

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I suspect as others that the new cartridge is aimed at the semi-auto rifle market, in particular the AR15 length.

Not a new idea, but finally has come to more exposure. I see that Starline is offering 223 basic brass for the wildcatters, a natural for the new one probably. Kinda a whisper mag.

35 cal has always been a favorite of some folks. Might be a nice feral pig gun if you have some of them on the place. One would think fairly light recoil, so repeat shots might be feasible at the right time.

A gunshop nearby has a 351 from the days of yore, might have to take another looksee. It has already claimed some hurts from a casual looker while closing the action..............

As far as being obsolete, for some never has been, the components are in great supply. Factory ammo might be a moot point for a lot of people that likes the size.
 

SteelBlue

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...and they will be sold for $9.99 for a box of 20. I think as soon as the AR platforms begin you will see this take off. Why get a 300 BLK when you could have this?
 

rangerbob

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At that price, it won't be long before barrels and complete uppers become available. Being based on the 223, it ought to work in standard magazines straight away. I would not be surprised to see it in the American rifle with a short barrel like the 450 Bushmaster. Bob!! :D
 

rangerbob

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Well, I did a little research. The 350 Legend is not listed at SAAMI yet, but I'm sure WW is working on that. There is a wildcat round called the 357 Max AR that is probably very close to being the same as the 350 Legend. AR barrels are available for that round and it uses the standard AR magazine. This may turn out to be an interesting cartridge if the factory ammo is priced right and if one can use either modified(expanded) 223 brass or Starline unformed basic new brass. Bob!! :D
 

grobin

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Maybe it will kill off the 300BLK? Aside from a heaver bullet and more muzzle energy it looks ballistically inferior to the 300, way fewer bullet choices in 35.
But we will need to get some real ballistics and load data to see. Without the subsonic loads this may not be competitive with the 300. Looks like there is a subsonic load though. Obviously a PC C load only. The 357max failed as a pistol load for good reasons so it's unlikely we will see a companion rifle/pistol pair unless you count those but ugly AR types with 9" barrels. The XPR looks nice but is hardly a PCC.
This looks like a legislative cartridge aimed at states which give preference to straight sided cartridges. Will it make it given the heavy competition?
 

WebleyMan

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I say chamber the American Rifle Ranch rifle for it. Seems like a good alternative to a .35 Remington or .30-30 for deer. Oh, and Ruger, make a few on the left-hand action, please?
 

rangerbob

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The 350 Legend is very on par with the 35 Remington, as it is probably loaded to higher pressure and will work in an AR platform. Bob!! :)
 

rangerbob

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Another update, this time from WW's website. There are to be 5 different loadings to include (1) 145 fmj White box, (2) 150 Deer Season Extreme Point (3) 160 Power Max Bonded (4) 180 Power Point, and (5) 265 open tip Super Suppressed. Obviously WW has thought this out and was not a last minute deal. Case length is 1.71". Bob! :wink:
 

grobin

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This looks like a straightforward administrative cartridge designed for Ohio, Michigan, and a few other states where straight walked cartridges are the only ones allowed or are given some advantages. There is a lot of competition here from modern pistol cartridges as well as traditional cartridges made popular by the Cowboy Action events. I doubt that anyone with an existing rifle or pistol in one of these will replace it with this.

We still need real ballistics data, but what little Winchester has published indicated the 350 is solidly aimed at these restricted states.

I wish Winchester luck but I don't see much point to the 350 legend for most of us.
 

SteelBlue

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For those who think the 350 Legend won't fly, I wonder how it can be explained how the 300 blk became so popular? The 350 should be a better cartridge in all aspects. I wouldn't be surprised if the 350 makes the 300 blk obsolete. With hot loads it would be capable of taking down brown bear, and in light loads with a heavy bullet could be subsonic.
 

grobin

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I got a 300BLK to play with subsonic and a supressor. It's in an Oly upper I got cheap when they went out of business. It's a fun plinking and target cartridge, suppressed it is great. Neighbors don't even know I'm shooting. I've used it some with the light supersonic loads on varmets ( coyote and hogs). It works fine and would be good for deer. I wouldn't use it suppressed beyond 100y or on deer beyond 150y. That looks like the 350 has more energy-not really needed. I'd hesitate to consider either cartridge for anything heavier than deer. For home defense the 300BLK is just right no real worries about over penetration and collateral dammage, the 350 is too much of a good thing.

I don't think the 350 will be a real success but hopefully Winchester knows what they are doing.

Given the number of 300BLK guns out there I don't see where the 350 adoption will make much difference even if it's a big success.
 
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