Ruger rifles can't shoot?

Quite a few times I've heard the Ruger M77/MKII/Hawkeye rifles aren't very accurate. My experience has been very, very different.

My first bolt rifle, a 1982 M77 in 7mm RM, shot higher and more to the left on successive shots when I first tried to sight it in. Floating the barrel solved that problem. Several years ago I was shooting for group and managed a .262" 3-shot group at 100 yards. Under an inch is common with most loads.

People expect heavy-barrel rifles to shoot better than sporter-weight rifles. My MKII VT in .22-250 printed four shots in half an inch at 200 yards using 40g bullets. The MKII .223 I bought used at Cabelas will consistently shoot under .5" at 100 with 40g bullets.

A few years ago, I was getting ready for an elk hunt and headed to the range for one last session with my semi-custom stainless MKII .338WM (factory action, trigger and barrel but the barrel had been fluted) and my stainless 2001 MKII .30-06. Both the .30-06 and the parts for the .338WM were purchased used. Both were stocked with the skeleton boat-paddle stock. (The .30-06 came to me in a factory laminate.) After a quick sight-in check at 100 yards, I moved to the 600-yard range, where I had set some clay pigeons on the berm. First up was the .338WM. The first shot gave me an idea about elevation. The second was a near miss and the third was a hit. It took two shots with the .30-06 to get a hit on a pigeon.

A couple days ago I was shooting clay pigeons at 600 yards using my 2010 All Weather Hawkeye .280 Remington and my 1989 M77 .257 Roberts. The Roberts has printed my best 3-shot group ever, .232" at 100 yards. Didn't hit any pigeons with either rifle but both consistently placed the bullets just off the edges of the pigeons. Given the very gusty, swirling winds, I was quite pleased.

My .300WM is a MKII that came in a skeleton boat-paddle stock. It consistently prints 3 shots well under an inch

Yesterday I was back at the range (2nd day in a row) and had my custom Interarms Mark X 6.5-06AI. The wind was gusty and swirling, as it had been the day before. I managed two hits in a row – twice – with the 6.5-06AI. What surprised me more, though was when I went to my aforementioned stainless/boat-paddle .30-06. I asked another shooter to spot for me when I went after the 600-yard pigeons. Turned out the spotter was not needed as my first shot blew up the pigeon.

For those that don't have access to a 600-yard range, here is what one looks like. The 600-yard berm is just below the far horizon.


Here's a closer look at the 500-and 600-yard berms, through the 14.5x scope on my Interarms 6.5-06AI.


And here's an even closer look at the 500- and 600-yard berms. You can see one of the clay pigeons at the same height as the leftmost orange steel but to the right of the centerline. There are two more pigeons but you pretty much have to know where to look to find them.


The swinging steel at 500 was not much of a challenge either day using the .280 Rem or .30-06.

By the way, all my Rugers have factory actions, triggers and barrels. All that has been done to them is float the barrel and polish the trigger. (The VT is the exception - it came with a great 2-stage trigger and factory floated barrel.)

You can't really count custom and free-floated Ruger rifles as nail drivers out of the box. The others, you can.

Your results fly in the face of most of us who do hand stands with reliable MOA on any OOB Ruger -- especially on a Number One.

Fiddling with loads and triggers,bedding etc is commonly needesd to achieve that goal.

Ruger even used to tell complaining folk that minute of deer was good enough for their guns!

wunbe

I long ago learned that any time someone makes the flat assertion that "X-Brand rifles don't shoot worth a hoot", it's time to stop listening and move on to something else. There's no point in contradicting them -- they're too dumb to listen.

Buckeye -

All my wood-stocked bolt rifles get free-floated before they go to the range for the first time. Doesn't matter if they are Ruger, Savage, Remington, whatever. Free-floating is a 20 minute job any fool can do, but it doesn't necessarily improve cold-bore accuracy – often it ***increases*** group size. I free-float barrel to keep the POI from wandering due to wood expansion during extended range sessions or temperature or humidity variations. Not really necessary and often counter-productive for a hunting rifle. Other vendor's un-floated wood-stocked rifles have the same problem.

Triggers that are not acceptable get adjusted, polished or replaced, again regardless of manufacturer. Every Ruger I own still has a factory trigger. Can't say that for my non-Ruger bolt rifles. My Remington had a factory recall on the trigger, the Savage had a broken part that needed to be replaced, and my Interarms Mark X custom has a Timney because a previous owner had replaced the factory trigger in the action I bought. Regardless, while tuning or replacing triggers can make rifles easier to shoot well, they don't help much if the rest of the rifle isn't up to the task.

The "custom" Ruger .338WM I own was built using all factory parts - used/naked action, trigger and bottom metal, used barrel and used stock. The barrel was fluted by a previous owner who found it still too heavy but that doesn't have any effect on accuracy. The only gunsmith work needed was to cut the threads back as needed to mount the barrel to the action and recut the chamber for headspace. Again, not much effect on accuracy, if any. The stock is a skeleton boat-paddle, no need for free-floating.

The #1 I had in .280 Remington shot about .5" with 140g loads. Would still have it if it hadn't been too pretty to take elk hunting. Sold it and bought the All Weather stainless/synthetic .280 instead. It also does under .5" with 140s and is box stock factory except for polishing the trigger.

The stainless .30-06 mentioned above came to me in a laminate stock. It shot great but was too heavy for my purposes. I bought a used Ruger skeleton/boat-paddle from a .270 Win to replace it. Only changes were to replace the stock and polish the trigger.

My .300WM is also a blued MKII skeleton/boat-paddle, this one from the factory. Polished the trigger and it shoots .5" groups regularly and tighter occasionally. Polished the trigger, no other changes.

And my .22-250 Ruger MKII VT is box stock factory – factory floated with no trigger tuning and it still printed four into .5" at 200 yards.

My ..223 MKII is still in the factory laminate stock and easily prints .5" groups on a regular basis with 40g bullets. Floated the barrel before going to the range. Didn't polish the trigger until alter but can't tell any difference as a result.

People go to a lot of effort to get rifles to shoot, including pillar and glass bedding. While I've bedded one on my wood-stocked Rugers just for the experience, a .30-06 Hawkeye, I can't tell any difference in the accuracy.

Used or new, maybe I just luck into the good ones Ruger puts out. The only Ruger I've had that I couldn't get good accuracy from as an American. Sold that POS.

Did I mention my buddy's MKII 7mm RM? Wood stocked, floated barrel, no trigger work. And it shoots like a house afire.

Biggest difference I've found in Ruger accuracy with the M77/MKII/Hawkeye rifles is to ensure the actions are properly torqued to the stock.

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I had two factory issue condition .30-06 Ruger rifles that shot under MOA (actually .750") @ 100yds (scoped).

Both were full/mannlicher stocked with relatively short (20") barrels, a #1 RSI and a tang-safety Model 77RSI.

I've owned/shot/hunted with over aa dozen #1 rifles over the past 45 years, in many different chamberings, and only one failed to be accurate (even after I tried a few enhancements) - a 7x57 #1-RSI.


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My Gunsite Scout shot 1/4" groups at 100 yards with the first handload I tried in it. All I did was add a 2.5-10 power scope.

I had an RSI in 308 that shot equally well. I did, however have to experiment with loads until i found what it liked. It wore a 6x Leupold. The action was slick on it and it had an incredible trigger. I do not know if it was a well broken in factory gun or if it had been worked before i got it.

They both shot well if I did my part.

All of my rifles over the past 40 years have been RUGER's and all of them would shoot under 1 inch without tinkering, just saying.

Gave a then-new son-in-law a Ruger Hawkeye .30-06 a couple years ago.



Here's a target we shot while checking the sight-in. Shots 1 and 2 were on a different target, I forget why. probably fouling shots.

Here's three great shooting Rugers, all MKII.

Left to right:

.338WM semi-custom built from all Ruger parts
.300WM (factory)
.30-06 (came in laminate stock)



Here's a 100-yard, 3-shot group from the .338WM:


Here's one from my M77 7mm RM, shot in crosswinds that were gusting to 40mph or more (the radio said over 60 for a few mies further west):

The "Ruger rifles won't shoot" thing is a classic example of the common situation where a tiny shred of truth gets repeated, misunderstood, blown up, and immortalized. This is extremely common in the gun world.

With Ruger centerfires, the fact is that for a while, many years ago, Ruger outsourced their centerfire rifle barrels. There were QC problems -- these barrels were maddeningly inconsistent. One M77 might be a tackdriver; the next one might not shoot worth a hoot. The No. 1 suffered from the same problem, plus the forearm hanger situation, and back then if you got a good No. 1 you got a very good one; but if you got a bad No. 1, you got a BAD one.

So even though Ruger took the bull by the horns decades ago and began making their own barrels with the result that today they are as good out of the box as any, the "gunshop gurus" are still bashing Rugers. And warning against using Hoppe's No. 9 on nickel-plated guns. And preaching that any use of WD40 whatsoever will result in your gun rotting away. And...

"As good as any" ? It is to laugh.

Savage produces more reliably accurate long guns out of the box across their line at lower prices than does Ruger. They are uglier and may not be built 'hell for strong'' but...

Hell, Ruger still does not seal its wood stocks worth a damn.

I have owned upwards of 50 Ruger rifles and still have maybe a dozen left. Most of these were customized to meet my wants and standard of performance. The rest were real shooters out of the box that still got tweaking -- trigger work, stock sealing -- to keep them that way. Of those sold soon after purchase, I'd say 15 or so, never passed muster. The rest moved on as I drifted out of collector mode into user status.

There is a reason Rugers rarely/never? show up at accuracy contests.

wunbe

Had two Ruger rifles at the range last Saturday. Only fired 15 rounds total but the first 6 told me everything I needed to know for now.

The first was my .300WM blue/boatpaddle, middle rifle in a photo posted above. Hadn't fired for almost a year. Tried a new load using my standard 180g powder charge and 180g Nosler AccuBond. I didn't know where they would hit but took two shots at 300 yards. First shot was from a clean bore and hit about an in high and an inch to the left. Second shot was about an inch low and an inch to the right. Next two shots, also at 300, were with a proven load, 175g Barnes LRX. One printed about 2" low and 2: to the left the next an inch below it. Considering the first shot was a fouler from a clean bore, I was pretty happy.

Second rifle was my Ruger Hawkeye stainless/synthetic, also at 300 yards with a new load using 140g Ballistic Tips. Both printed about an inch and a half apart in the lower right of the 6" square target. Given the strong left-to-right crosswind, I was pretty happy.

Couldn't tell where the bullets were hitting at 500 and 600 yards, even though I could see dust clouds after recovering from the recoil. Didn't have anyone to spot for me, either, so I couldn't make any accurate adjustments. Best as I could tell, though, I was easily in the kill zone for an elk at both ranges - and that was all I was concerned about for the day.

Won't be able to get back for a month due to a full dance card, but looking forward to shooting with Daughter #1 and my 20-year hunting buddy when I do. Need to iron out which rifle will go antelope hunting and which will go elk hunting.

My old tang-safety M77 in .30-06 is bone stock except for a trigger job. 3 lb crisp break - just fine for a hunting rifle.

From a fouled barrel, it will put 2 shots in rapid succession within 3/4 inch of each other at 100 yards..... if you fire a third shot with a barrel that is now quite warm, it will wander by a couple inches. However, you shouldn't need that third shot - you shouldn't even need the second.

Really good shooting 77's exist, mediocre shooting 77's are easier to find.

gunzo said:

Really good shooting 77's exist, mediocre shooting 77's are easier to find.

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That has not been my experience. Never dumped a M77/MKII/Hawkeye because it wouldn't shoot. Can't say the same for the Ruger American I had.

I agree with your previous post that Savage rifles tend to be shooters. I've had several and gifted others. One gifted (NIB) .30-06 had to be returned to the factory because it wouldn't feed correctly (the new center-feed mag). Some had to be floated to avoid the POI walking problem. One needed a spring replacement in the AccuTrigger. Overall I like them, the issues have been minor and easily resolved. But perfect they are not.

What I've found to be most important on the Rugers is to hve the action properly torqued to the stock.

Many opinions in this tread are 20-30 years off !!

Oh, I didn't know Ruger is now sealing their wood stocks; putting adjustable triggers and bedding blocks into their wood & blue offerings; or free floating them.

Aside from making their own barrels, Old Bill's grand design is still pretty much in place.

wunbe

wunbe said:

Oh, I didn't know Ruger is now sealing their wood stocks; putting adjustable triggers and bedding blocks into their wood & blue offerings; or free floating them.

Aside from making their own barrels, Old Bill's grand design is still pretty much in place.
wunbe

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I've often said I get all the good ones - in spite of the terrific odds against that happening...

I don't shoot for groups very often, especially at 100 yards. But here are a few pics:

M77 .30-06 mfg in 1984, purchased used in 2006, two-shot scope check before going long:


MKII .300WM, mfg in 2003, purchased new in 2004, five shot group. First shot was from a cleaned and oiled bore, so it doesn't really count:


M77 .257 Roberts, mfg1989, purchased used in 2004, three shot group:


Even my buddy's 1999-ish lefty MKII in 7mm RM shoots. At 411 yards, one shot:


Admittedly, I did have a Hawkeye .30-06 that shot horizontal groups:


Changed the scope, problem fixed. Shoots great now.

back around 1989 I bought a 77 in 257 Roberts. it grouped horrible! I let it go. since then I have had a 220 swift and a 280 rem. both heavy barrel that shot great. i also had a pencil barrel 223. it shot excellent if you let the barrel cool between shots. I now have a full stock RS international in 243 that shoots very tight. sat. I just bought another international tang safety in 250 3000 I hope it shoots as good as it looks,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have a 7mm rm lefty 77 mark 2 I purchased it used. I looked over a 3 shot group I fired last year. It was a triangle group left to right just cutting the 1 inch lines so, 1 inch apart, high shot about 3/4 above the others, above the left shot. That was with a cold bore shot, as I recall the lower left. 140 nosler, imr 4350 powder. I think it is damn good shooter for a hunting rifle. The hawkeye FTW in 6.5 is a work in progress, 5 shot groups at 100 yds are always greater then 1 inch. Normally 1.25 to 1.50. Not bad the right load will be better.
I have owned 10-22s (2 of 3), mini-14s (2) and a mark 2 243 that where not great in the accuracy dept. as a factory rack grade gun. I have had same experience with Savage, Browning and Remington rifles some great shooters some not so much.