Confounded by my new rifle 338AI

Well I buy a Ruger 77 tang safety in 338-06 so I assumed it was 338 Federal. Well it is 338 AI. Similar to Federal but the neck is at 60 degrees instead of 45. Now I use to reload in my youth and I have the equipment but my heart is not in it. Federal would have been good as there are factory loaded ammo. So now to try this gun I am going to have to make some ammo. As I understand it Fire forming cases is the best way. Well it seem a little dangerous to me. I have heard there are some 338 federal cases out there but most start out with 308.
My quest is has anyone out there done this before and have a procedure that works?

This down right scary!

The 338 06 is based on the 30-06 case. The 338 Federal is based on the shorter, different dimensioned, 308 case.

"A little dangerous" ? I guess so in spades, and pointless to boot!

You have to start with a 30-06 case and by all means resarch fire forming before going any further.

wunbe

Gee, I'd have just read the spec sheet before I plopped down my money.

The 338-06AI probably has a 40 degree shoulder if it is the Ackley version. Forget about the 338 Federal as it is nowhere close. Factory or handloaded 338-06 ammo will shoot in an Improved chamber resulting in a perfectly fireformed Improved case. The 338-06 is easily loaded from 30-06 brass with a set of appropriate dies. The seller should have explained it to you. Bob!

You probably want to move to the Factory Ammunition and Reloading form! The 338-06 is made from 30-06 brass by using the correct sizing die, it has an expanded ball. If by Ai you mean Ackley Improved that's a different critter and is fire formed from a 338-06 case! Don't confuse it with A squared!

There is plenty of 338 Federal brass just check Midway. Norma also has 338-06 brass again Midway (it's also called A-squared as they did commercial loads at one time. If you want Ai you are going to fire form.

Yes 338 Ackley Improved hence my info on the 338 federal, I bought it as a 338-06 and assumed it was a Federal and not an AI. My info on the shoulder angle is what has me concerned about trying to Fireform with 338-06. If it is not safe to shoot federal in it was is safe to fireform with it. I read up on it is why my question. Has anyone done this? Not talking read up on it! It would seem to me unsafe. If I had known it was a more or less wildcat cartridge I would have passed.

The 338 Federal is basically a 338/08 and is the 308 Winchester necked up to 338. Your rifle is based on the 30-06 necked up to 338 and blown out(improved). The 338 Federal will not work in your rifle, although it may chamber in the improved chamber, don't even think about firing a 338 Federal in your rifle. Handloading the 338-06 is as simple as using 30-06 brass, 338 bullets, and a set of 338-06 dies. Mr. Ackley designed most, if not all, of his improved chambers(cartridges) to still work with standard ammo if that was all was available. The resulting fired brass then becomes the improved version and a set of improved dies is needed to load the improved round. I have (3) 338 Federal rifles and believe me it is not the 338-06 AI. Bob!! 8)

5card said:

If it is not safe to shoot federal in it was is safe to fireform with it. I read up on it is why my question.

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You are not getting this. 338 federal is NOT THE FRIGGING SAME as 338-06. DO NOT fire 338 fed in the 338-06AI to 'fireform' or you wont have a face left.....

You can fire 338-06 ammo to fireform, if you can find it.....

Thank you, huntsman 22, for explaining it better than I. Bob!! :mrgreen:

You explained it just fine. I was just typing when you beat me to the punch

There are two choices:
1. Buy NOSLER 338-06 ammo, https://www.midwayusa.com/s?userSearchQuery=338-06+ammo&userItemsPerPage=24.
Around $4/round.

2. Buy 30-06 brass and resize it to 338-06, finish reloading it.

Then in either case you fire form it, perfectly safe with 338-06. You now have 338-06 Ai brass that you can reload with dies made by Redding for reloading the 338-06 Ackley improved. Often referred to as A-Square . So you need two sets of dies.

I've never fire formed 338-06 ackley. When I was young and foolish I did fire form cases. You need to inspect the case carefully, make sure it is good. Be aware you will need to trim the case to length and then turn it as the mouth will thicken. With the advent of modern cartridges I don't see the need for wild cat cartridges.

grobin said:

There are two choices:With the advent of modern cartridges I don't see the need for wild cat cartridges.

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I agree but, unfortunately, the OP definitely has one and will either have to learn to deal with it correctly or sell the gun to someone who can.

As said multiple times above the .338 Federal and the .338/06 are very different cartridges and the .338/06AI is different from either but can be fireformed from the .338/06.

Do NOT buy or fire .338 Federal rounds in this gun, EVER.

I got the dies with the gun. And got the info on the 338 federal saying it is the same as 338.06 but now see what you are saying about federal being based on 308 and 338.06 on the 30.06 case The Asq info brought it to light and found info the web on it. I did not have a clue on this caliber this is why the post. I have what I need to make the cartridges. I have lots of 30.06 brass and the dies. I not sure I am interested in it enough to pursue it. I may move it along. Not the first gun I purchased that I lost interest in quickly. Thanks to all for the enlightenment.

5card, at least you gathered info before making a bad mistake. Good on you. Good luck on what ever you decide with your new rifle. RJ

5card, you have a really useful rifle. I have a client that has a M77 rebarreled to 338-06. I load his ammo and it's no more difficult than loading 30-06. I usually use necked up 270 Winchester brass, hand sorted from range brass that is more or less free. I use the 270 mainly because once it's a loaded 338-06, it can't be chambered in a 270 by mistake(338 bullets will not fit a 270 chamber). The 338-06's velocity and energy is more than the 338 Federal and less than a 338 Winchester. This makes it a real big game rifle. The AI version closes in on the 338 Winchester even more. I hope this adds even more info for your very valid question. Bob!! 8)

The 336-06 is indeed a super wildcat. It has much of the velocity and knock down power needed for big mule deer, elk etc that the 338 Win Mag has w/o the same recoil.

I had a 1B converted to it and stocked up on Weatherby loaded ammo when it went on sale after WBY abandoned their short trial as a commercial round. So I'm good forever with the rounds and brass I have.

wunbe

I'm still not sure of, or convinced you know what you have.
Why do you think you have a .338/06 Ackley Improved?

Is barrel marked .338/06AI ?
Do you have a fired case?
I have a custom barreled MkX action in .338/06. It has the standard 17deg30sec shoulder of the parent.30/06 case.
(The Ackley Imp has a 40deg. NOT 45, or 60deg. Don't know where you got that).

My Lee .338/06 dies are marked .338/06 ACK.
Not ACKLEY IMP. Lee did this to avoid having to pay royalties to A-Square for the labeling.
Art Alpin, proprietor of A-Square copywrited the .338/06 A-Square name. (He also otherwise angered many in the shooting fraternity with his legalistic manner).

I'd bet "dollars to donuts", you have a .338/06.
Not a "wildcat", but an excellent, orphaned factory cartridge.

Goose you have my thinking prior to buying. I had convinced my self it was 338-06 But the barrel is marked 338-06AI. I had asked the seller for a spent case or 1 live round if he had it. As I got this at an in line auction so I did not have it in hand. He said he would send it if he had it but said he has the died. When I got the died and looked in the box there are only 2. They are marked same as the barrel but from what I have read it should be a 3 die set. There was no shell holder or empty case. If I decide to keep the gun I am going to have the chamber lead cast so I know what the case should look like. But my inclination is to sell it and move on. When I get back home early next week I post a pic of the barrel markings

If the barrel is marked "AI", then it's most likely an Ackley Improved.
It Should have a 40deg shoulder. You should also be able to fireform factory.338/06 ammo (should you find some).

Most likely two dies are the complete set. I don't know what the third die would likely be.

You should be able to reload once-fired .30/06 brass. Running the fired '06 case into the die will expand the neck and set the apex of the case shoulder such that it will chamber in the rifle.
First, load a dummy (empty case, no primer or powder) and minimally seat the bullet, and attempt to chamber it. It shouldn't fit. Progressively seat the bullet deeper by 1/2 turn of the seater knob until the bolt just will easily close.
This is your "fireforming" OAL.
Load the rounds with a starting load of H4895. Alternatively, you could use 10gr of RedDot or Unique. I suggest using either the Speer 200gr HotCore or 200gr Hornady PtSpt as they are the least expensive jacketed bullets in .338.
Or, do as I did making some "useable" .375Ruger brass from .300WinMag range pickups. I loaded and fireformed the cases by using a Lee 255gr cast bullet over 10gr of Unique. The cases look funky with a coke bottle appearance, but load and shoot just fine. I've killed deer with them loaded to full power. If I lose one, no big deal. Not like losing a $2 Factory Hornady case!!!

Use any published .338/06 data as a starting point. Max loads will be 3-8% above standard .338/06 loads.
It'll deliver.300WinMag energy with same trajectory as .30/06. If I hadn't aquired about a dozen other rifles to include two .338MarlinExpress rifles, I'd still be hunting with it.

It's "boringly good". So good and predictable, it's boring. Just like a .338mag without the extra recoil. I haven't hunted with mine in 10yrs or so. Too many other toys.... and our 100-200lb deer or pigs, or 300lb bears, don't need that much killing.