1-A 30-06 Accuracy issues (random flyers w/handloads)

No, not the usual "walking up the target" problem. I've got a 1978 #1-A in 30-06 I've been messing with. Having some issues with random flyers. Shot with the forend off, shot better so then opened up the forend to free float the barrel. Started shooting better (3 shot groups), but then.....random flyers (4-5" low at 100 yds). Swapped scopes. Then chonographed one particular load. See below. The low flyers are about 100 fps slower than the other rounds. Pretty sure 100 fps would'nt cause this much drop, so is there something else going on with some of these slower loads that's also contributing? Ignition problems? These were 150 grain Hornady FMJ, but I've had similar results with 170 and 200 grain bullets.

Thought it may be my handloads, so shot some 150 grain factory loads. Shot 4, 5 shot groups, pretty "circular", 2.5-4" groups.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Dave

Some questions:
Is it all the same brand/lot of brass?
Are powder charges weighed and trickled or just thrown?
Is brass length consistent?
Is seating depth consistent?
Same primer & powder all loads?

I have the same rifle made in 1976. Two points I'd like to add to the conversation:

1. For me, the accuracy load in this rifle is the Hornady 130 gr JSP with a near-max load of IMR 4320. It shoots 1-inch 5-shot groups all day long.

2. I've found that keeping the inside of the case neck clean and consistent makes a huge difference in accuracy. I get a consistent bullet grip by tumbling the brass. If there is any lube or other sources of friction variability inside the case neck, accuracy degrades rapidly.

I suspect at least a partial issue with your Ammo. With an ES(extreme spread) of over 100 fps and a sporter weight rifle you may only get 'minute of deer' accuracy. I would fix that first...just a thought

First, thanks for all the comments so far. I probably partially answered my own question, seeing that the one factory load I tried didn't have the vertical stringing (so probably not the rifle?).

As far as my loads, all WW brass (2-3 times fired), powder weighed on beam scale (46.0 Varget), brass length is all good (haven't weighed any cases, wished I would have), haven't done anything special with the necks, seating depth 0.040" off lands, Federal primers. I do use a spray case lube for the inside of the necks, and don't tumble after to clean them.

I started working with this load because I had several 3-shot groups well under an inch. After that the stringing started. And I agree, minute of deer may be all I might expect from a known-to-be-finicky rifle with a light barrel. But, what I can't wrap my head around is, it'll put the first 2 shots within a half an inch, then drop one 5" low, then go back up again. Sometimes there have been shots in between, but most times it prints 2 distinct "groups" (my son has even questioned if I was sure I was aiming at the correct bullseye). The "flyers" are always low with windage being good.

One other item of note, 46 grains of Varget is the minimum load per Sierra, but 2 grains under the minimum published by Hodgdon. Perhaps I'll load up some hotter rounds to see what that does.

Any additional comments about possible causes of these "vertical droppers", either relating to my loads or the rifle, are most appreciated.

Thanks.

I would get rid of any lube inside the case neck. I think you will find that adds significant variability.

I would have to say the ammo is your issue. Take away your flyers and you have a nice grouping. If the rifle was the problem I doubt you'd see a main group holding together like it is. What's the old saying? A good rifle will still shoot poor ammo fairly well but a poor rifle wont even shoot good ammo well? Something like that.


And as far as your stated charge weights...I can't ever recall getting the best groups for any given load recipe at the starting load range. If it were me , I'd be starting over with new brass from the same lot prepped and trimmed the same. If the problem persists I'd change primers next. I'd also be chronographing some higer end factory loads in similar bullet weights to get a good baseline to compare with your reloads.

It's all about the shooter, the ammo, the rifle or a combo of all of the above. Start with proper cleaning and checking the rifle out. Know what to look for and at.
Shoot (a) or several factory loads of the bullet weight you plan to use. As others said that gives you a baseline, that is real important to compare your handloads to, yours should be better. Compare their COL to yours, depth of bullet can make difference. As does bullets/weights/styles/makes, powder type and how much, primmers, cases and how you loaded them.
Shoot slowly no more than 1 per minute. Due your part but, nearly everyone will get fliers, most flinch once and awhile.
Stringing vertical can be from not using a good solid cheek weld from shot to shot.
I question your little circle dot for a target. Most scopes have some type of duplex cross hairs and with those shoot a leupold type target, check on web if your not sure what I mean. The cross hairs center into the center of target and you can see the cross hairs vs the white between the black squares. Your little dot may disappear under the cross hairs unless you have a dot that matches that same size. If so you will not really know how far or close to the circle you centered crosshairs are. Circle targets work great for iron sights, ones about 8 inch's at 100 yds. Not as good with most scopes (not all).
Note: I loaded some 6.5 cm 120s at the canaclure and got about a 3 inch 5 shot group, 100 yds.. Those where maybe 1/4 inch lower than max. COL. Used the same load but at max COL and they shot at or a little less than 1 inch. (Same day at range).
There could be many reasons for your results, not real easy to cover everything without being there and watching and know your gun, you and every aspect of your load. Hope some of that helps.

I had a 1976 1V in .300Win Mag. It did exactly what your gun is doing. I tried everything. Free floated the barrel, tried different fore arm tension and all the hand loading tricks. I think the bottom line is certain #1s just don't shoot consistantly. Cool guns but have some sort of basic flaw. It's one of two guns in my life I have sold. I love Rugers and have a bunch of them, but the #1 is a problem child.

The slower bullets are shooting lower. Powder charge or something else?

Short version: re-read sailorb's post.

Longer version: I have a .257 Roberts, 1-B. I can get better groups by throwing rocks downrange. No joke, and I've tried everything. My .303 British 1-A and 7x57 1-A give okay hunting accuracy but that's it. The .222 gives better performance, but I'll never win a bench rest match with it. Many people claim one inch, three shot groups with their No.1. I believe them and God bless them, but I don't think that is the norm. Here's what my dad said about No. 1's: "No.1's are like beautiful women. They're nice to look at, but they'll break your heart." And, given the latest MSRP's for No 1's, I could also add that like beautiful women, they're expensive.

No way would a 100 fps difference cause a 4-5 inch difference in point of impact all by itself. The usual suspects would be a bedding problem, something loose in the scope mounting system, or maybe the scope itself.

I agree with others - tumble the brass to clean the inside of the case mouth and remove the spray lube. I doubt you can get a consistent amount of spray evenly around all case mouths and consistency is critical to accuracy.

My Ruger M77 in 7mm RM would shoot similar groups with Speer Grand Slam bullets - 3-4 in a tight group and flyer that would stretch group size to an inch. Switched bullets and the problem went away.

Hi,

I heard this story, long ago when I thought I had the bug to buy a No. 1. I was talked out of it by my former co-worker salesman at the LGS who described this "One box has a great shooter in it, the next, with the next SN in line, won't hit air if you aim straight up" problem with the rifles. I don't know if he told me, if I read it here or elsewhere, but it went that Ruger has used barrels produced in house, and from outside vendors. One of them shoots a lot better than the other. So they stuck with that one, and life's gotten somewhat better with the No.1s. Which is which, I don't remember.

My 2 cents worth here is on top of already good advice which has already been given, and that is you've probably got roughly 4-5 gr of powder to work with between a starting and max load. I'd load a few at one gr increments from where you are until you're at book max, changing nothing else, and see if there's any improvement. If so, you might fine tune things a bit in the 1/4 to 1/2 gr range up and down from the best one. What you're trying to do is match the barrel's harmonics (it oscillates just like a guitar string as the bullet travels down the barrel) so that the hole in the end and the sights are in proper alignment relative to each other the instant the bullet leaves the barrel. It's really cool to see if you know anyone who has access to some really high speed camera equipment and good lenses to be able to watch this happen. We were lucky enough to have a customer who had some connection thru work and brought just such a rig to the range one day where he filmed shotgun barrels as the guys were firing.

I'd expect rifle barrels, regardless of being light or heavy, would have less oscillation than a shotgun barrel because even light ones have considerably more steel in them than a shotgun barrel. But the basic concept is still there. If a change in powder charge doesn't do the trick, then try another powder or another bullet. Just remember to change only one variable at a time so you know for sure you've hit on the "right answer" and how to duplicate it.

Best of luck!

Rick C

I love the No. 1, and a good one is a pure joy. But to be frank, they have never been known for their accuracy. In my experience, if you have one that shoots sub-2 MOA groups consistently, you are blessed. If you get one that shoots more like 3-4 MOA -- well, unfortunately that still falls within the range of a "normal" No. 1.

Some are outstandingly accurate and there's no denying it; others will lead you on a long and frustrating journey before you find their sweet spots; and some of them just won't play nice no matter what.

1A 7x57, my first No. 1, was a 1.5 to 2 inch rifle. The first rounds I shot through it would walk themselves up off the paper. Relieved the fore end to take care of that walking but still not super accurate. 1S .300WM first load shot 5 into 1 inch. 1B .25-06. First load tried shot 5 into 1 inch. 1B .270Win was a 1.5 to 2 inch rifle. 1A .243Win would shoot factory 100gr Remington factory loads into 6 inches on a good day. Worst accuracy I'd ever seen from a new rifle. Stupendous wood so I had to see if I could make it work. Finally got Nosler 95 gr and H4831 to shoot steady five shot 1 inch groups and Hornady 75gr to shoot into .75 inch. I take it out occasionally and shoot some Remington 100gr factory so I can have a good laugh. 1B .30-06 shoots 150 TSX into nice round 1 inch groups. Killed a Moose with it last fall at lazer'ed 283 yards. One shot, dead moose. 1V .22-250 easy inch with almost everything I've put through it. 1B 6mm would shoot a steady .5 inch with an occasionally a group in the 3s. 1B .243Win easy inch and occasionally .5 groups. 1H .375H&H would shoot 1 inch at 200 yards with 270gr Hornady Spirepoints.

As others have said, some shoot better than others. And some respond well to load development. I'm always willing to do the load development work just to see what I can get.

One thing worth noting about No. 1 rifles is that they have a slow lock time. Much harder to shoot good groups with them than say a Remington 700. Therefore more room for operator error on trigger release and follow through.

I have been shooting and handloading for the 06 since the 70s a lot of bench rest shooters believe IMR 4350 to be the best powder for the 06, as do I. I use a full charge under a sierra GK 165 BTHP for hole in hole accuracy.