Velocity PC carbine

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Steve we are basically in agreement. What I call the shorties (short barrel, short cartridge, short performance) go together. I don't know that the 9/10mm can't be somewhat optimized for longer barrel but not without deoptimizing them for the shorties barrels.

BBI is a useful resource but is very limited as they only test loads optimized for the shorties not for more general use.

I've got some Tail Boss and plan to try that as it is very easy to work up loads. I'm planning to try other more serious loads for PCCs using some slower powers. I need to figure out starting loads for some other powers; lil'Gun and H110 are on my list to try. I've more hopes for 10mm than 9, but I may be barking up the wrong bush. Blended powders may be the only way o get the performance in a PCC that makes sense with the limited case volumes of the 9/10mm. I'm very reluctant to go there as I've no idea how to safely develop a load, given I don't have a reasonable way to estimate a safe starting load.

Going back to the first page of this thread, I would like to know what powder/powder blend Civil Defense uses in their ammunition. Note the dramatic difference in velocity from handgun length pistol barrel and the 16 inch PCC:

Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain was 1932feet per second out of the pistol; 2604 (+672) out of the carbine with 753 foot pounds of energy
Federal 105 grain was 1124fps out pistol; 1386 (+262) carbine with 444fpe
Freedom Munitions 115 grain was 974 out of the pistol; 1251 (+272) carbine with 400fpe
Hornady Critical Defense 124 grain was 975 out of the pistol; 1294 (+277) carbine with 461fpe

I've had time now to use the CD 50's on 'coons, skunks, possums and one coyote. All shots were under 100 yards, but the results were uniformly devastating on these sized animals. I can't ask for much more from a pistol cartridge's performance in my personal varmint environment. I have a sneaking suspicion that this little round might tend to stop a threat posed by a human intruder in my home fairly well, too.

And then there is the NOVX 65 grain +P that scoots out of my Ruger pistola at a rather brisk 1700 fps, and out of my PCC at 2305fps creating a theoretical 763 fpe. It's quite accurate and tends to turn varmints and vermin inside out. I shot a feral hog a couple of days ago at a lasered 78 yards. Hit him in the right eye and he went down with one squeal and a few kicks. DEFINITELY NOT A HOG HUNTING ROUND, but as we know, regardless of caliber, it's bullet placement and performance that counts.
Here's an interesting article on the NOVX 65 grain cartridge:
http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/review-novx-ammunition/?utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Chronicle+092218-Review%3A+NOVX+Ammunition-2018-09-22+14%3A35%3A02&sc_src=email_4091588&sc_lid=201134312&sc_uid=wZsHTcDgyz&sc_llid=946644&sc_eh=fd75647636cbb7d01

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I have a few velocities from some AR-15 carbines.

Federal 115 JHP XM9001 (rated for 1300fps) - 1586fps out of a 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
Federal 115gr JHP +P+ (also rated for 1300fps) - 1613fps out of a 16" Alpha Shooting Sports barrel.
Nosler 115gr JHP (Match Grade) - 1438fps out of a 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
Independence 115gr JHP (1069fps from 3" Shield) - 1427fps from 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
IMI 115gr Di-Cut - 1478fps out of a 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
Speer 124gr GD +P - 1533fps out of a 16" Alpha Shooting Sports barrel.
Remington 124gr BJHP - 1340fps out of a 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
Remington 124gr BJHP +P - 1414fps out of a 16" Alpha Shooting Sports barrel.
Winchester 124gr NATO FMJ - 1401fps out of a 16" PSA upper.
Federal 147gr JHP 9MS (905fps from 3" Shield) - 1216fps out of a 16" Dark Storm Industries barrel.
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As mentioned above, Liberty and some others get very high velocities from very light bullets. The high muzzle energies are because me increases as the v squared. I suspect that a few are using blended powders. This is similar to the 300BLK with it's constrained case volume. I don't think that reasonable performance from a PC C is an impossibility, but it may require blended powders.

I'm not sure about the need for blended powders. I used 9.5grs of AA #9 with a Remington 125gr Golden Saber (38 + 357 bullets) which clocked over 1500fps in multiple barrels. Sierra shows loads as high as 10.5grs AA #9 with their 125gr 9mm bullet.

Using the same Remington bullets I averaged over 1500fps using 6grs of BE-86 which is listed as max for 124gr Gold Dots by Speer. Which means I'm probably in the +P range. I tried lower charges but best accuracy in several barrels was at 6grs.
I was actually worried that I was pushing pressures too much until I saw the Speer factory 124gr +P Gold Dot loads were going slightly faster.

I don't recommend these loads if you are using the lighter buffers for PCC games in your ARs. I use heavy buffers and the Tubbs 308 rifle spring.

They work fine in a friends Ruger 9mm PCC as well. His velocities on some loads were right in the mix with 6 ARs being used and on other loads 40-60fps slower or more.