What to expect of a used Mini 14 581 as far as accuracy
- Thread starter loiblb
- Start date
Help Support Ruger Forum:
loiblb said:
First off, understand that you are asking a general question, and that the answer to that question may or may not apply to any specific gun.
Plus, we all have our own idea of what constitutes "very good shooters at 100 yards" in terms of mass produced semi-auto carbines.
So, that said...here's the best answer I can give you:
My particular iron-sighted Mini-14 has on the rare occasion, placed 3-shots of it's favorite 5.56 "green-tip" ammo into a 1" circle...but never when firing a 5-shot group, nor would I expect it to. It can however, be counted on to keep 5 shots of that same ammo inside a 2-1/2" circle or less...but...as a more practical matter, if I keep adding to that group until I've expended an entire 20-Rd mag, that circle will become something more on the order of 4 inches or so.
You may also note that I've tested factory "match ammo" the very same way on the very same day, and that the results I got were about the same. The point there being that while no gun can outshoot the accuracy potential of the ammo it's being fed, it's just as true that even the best ammo can not outshoot the accuracy potential of the gun it's being used in.
In other words, my particular Mini-14 is AT BEST a 2MOA gun, and that's that...which suits me just fine because shooting at postage stamps is not what I bought it to do.
On the other hand, I aint you, and my gun ain't the one you're looking to buy, so then there's that...which purty-much leaves us right where we started in terms of me trying to answer your question, eh?
Perhaps something here has helped, perhaps not. Either way though, I wish you good luck in your endeavors.
DGW
DGW1949 has provided a great answer to the OP question.
My experience with early 180 series Mini's and the new 580, 581,582 and 583 guns indicates great improvement over early models.
It is not a precision target rifle by any means. It is a robust, dependable and fun rifle that could be capable of providing years of dependable service.
You can hit center mass at 100 yards all day long on a B21 target if you do your part. http://www.americantargetcompany.com/B_21_target.asp
Bill
My experience with early 180 series Mini's and the new 580, 581,582 and 583 guns indicates great improvement over early models.
It is not a precision target rifle by any means. It is a robust, dependable and fun rifle that could be capable of providing years of dependable service.
You can hit center mass at 100 yards all day long on a B21 target if you do your part. http://www.americantargetcompany.com/B_21_target.asp
Bill
Coyote Hunter
Single-Sixer
Sadly, these are great fun guns, great close range SHTF guns and not much more. Big Brother has two and I won't waste ammo putting it through them.
Coyote Hunter said:
It seems to me that your first and second sentences are in direct contradiction to one another. Or perhaps it's just that you have no personal use for a reliable/handy carbine which is not only as you said, "great fun" to shoot, but is also a quite-capable tool for defending home 'n hearth...dunno.
At any rate, your apparent disdain for the platform has been duly noted.
Now, if we can get back to the actual question at hand, I'm sure that the OP would appreciate it...as might others.
DGW
This discussion surfaces so very often, and there are seldom any winners of the debate, and seldom any converts.
I've owned and shot many. I've shared mine many times with the "haters", and in every case they say, "I had no idea they shot so good". They hated them even though they'd never previously shot them.
I have scoped bolt guns that obviously shoot more accurately, but this is an unfair comparison. If my bolt guns had aperture sights, I'd not be able to shoot them any better than my Mini's or my AR's. I always say, any target I can see thru the aperture sight at any distance is a dead target. And if I really am needing a scoped gun, it's not gonna be a Mini or an AR anyway. The Mini is a runnin' and gunnin' kind of rifle, designed for quick access, and quick acquisition. The mission of the Mini is diminished with a scope. The same could be said of an AK, a M-1 carbine, and even the AR.
I've owned and shot many. I've shared mine many times with the "haters", and in every case they say, "I had no idea they shot so good". They hated them even though they'd never previously shot them.
I have scoped bolt guns that obviously shoot more accurately, but this is an unfair comparison. If my bolt guns had aperture sights, I'd not be able to shoot them any better than my Mini's or my AR's. I always say, any target I can see thru the aperture sight at any distance is a dead target. And if I really am needing a scoped gun, it's not gonna be a Mini or an AR anyway. The Mini is a runnin' and gunnin' kind of rifle, designed for quick access, and quick acquisition. The mission of the Mini is diminished with a scope. The same could be said of an AK, a M-1 carbine, and even the AR.
WAYNO said:
I hear ya Wayno, and agree with every bit of it.
I guess that what get's me the most, is the one's who really don't have anything of value to add in terms of whatever question is being asked, but yet somehow feel it their duty to let the OP know just how they feel about the Mini-14 regardless.
Not only downright disrespectful, but pointless to boot...that's what I'm getting at.
DGW
I completely agree with your comments. Some folks just seem compelled to express negative opinions.
Regarding the OP, I have a post on this board about a recent set of loads I tried with my Mini 14 (scoped), and I found a load that would shoot into just over an inch.
I think folks who conclude that all Mini 14s are inaccurate don't reload, or they do but they don't know very much about load development. I think others buy ammo at Walmart and expect miracles. I suspect some don't even have a Mini 14; they're just posting (with no real knowledge).
I've never had a rifle I couldn't get to shoot below 1.5 MOA; it's just been a question of finding the right load. One of the toughest was a Browning B-78 in 30 06 with an octagonal barrel and killer wood. I ultimately found a load it would put into an inch, but it took some doing. But they all get there, some sooner than others.
Regarding the OP, I have a post on this board about a recent set of loads I tried with my Mini 14 (scoped), and I found a load that would shoot into just over an inch.
I think folks who conclude that all Mini 14s are inaccurate don't reload, or they do but they don't know very much about load development. I think others buy ammo at Walmart and expect miracles. I suspect some don't even have a Mini 14; they're just posting (with no real knowledge).
I've never had a rifle I couldn't get to shoot below 1.5 MOA; it's just been a question of finding the right load. One of the toughest was a Browning B-78 in 30 06 with an octagonal barrel and killer wood. I ultimately found a load it would put into an inch, but it took some doing. But they all get there, some sooner than others.
I only shoot at paper targets when I'm sighting in a scope. Otherwise I shoot varmints with my 582 series Mini. The farthest I've killed a ground hog is 70 yards. Examining him later the bullet hit exactly where I was looking. So as DWC said "Its good enough for me"
Coyote Hunter
Single-Sixer
DGW1949 said:
No contradiction at all. They are fun to shoot and accurate enough for close range SHTF scenarios, as I stated.
For my own uses, not so much. I have a Ruger Scout (16.1" barrel) that qualifies as a carbine, is fun to shoot AND ACCURATE. While I have a tough time hitting clay pigeons at 500 with it, ringing the steel at 500 or 600 yards is no problem at all. With brother's Mini's I'm just wasting ammo trying to hit anything beyond 200 yards. Prairie dogs well under 200 yards are quite safe when I'm shooting the Mini's.
As to "handy, reliable carbine", I have others in addition to the Ruger Scout. All three of my ARs qualify if short barrel length is the main criteria (.223/5.56, .300 BLK and .308 Win). They are all accurate to a degree well beyond what any Mini I've shot is capable of providing. My Browning B92 (.44 Mag), Marlin 336 (.30-30) and Marlin 375 (.375 Win) also fit the "handy, reliable carbine" specification. A couple weeks ago I was blasting clay pigeons at will at 300 yards with the .375 and ringing the steel at 500. The .30-30 can do that as well. The Browning .44 Mag is irons only and accuracy is limited more by my eyesight than the rifle itself (as other shooters have proved).
There is a reason I have a safe full of firearms (two, actually), and still don't have a Mini. If someone gave me one I might keep it - but spending perfectly good money on one? No thanks. Give me a Mini and your ammo and I'll have a ball.
Well CH, it looks as though this thread is just about done for, so please, do feel free to continue rambling-on about your two safe's full of guns, clay pigeons @ 300Yds, steel targets @500-600 Yds, your AR's, bolt guns, or for that matter...anything else you can think of which has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's actual question as posed...'cause you got it son, you're the winner. :lol: :lol: :lol: .
DGW
DGW
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Why don't you stop with the personal comment stuff DGW.
It's just an opinion like any other.
It's just an opinion like any other.
That is a wealth of information describing how to make the Mini a solid shooter.
The picture is outstanding.
Bill
The picture is outstanding.
Bill
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Yeah, but I interpreted the question to be how does the average 581 shoot as far as accuracy goes.Buckeye Bill said:
Jimbo357mag said:
Here ya go Jimbo, this is an exact quote of the OP's question:
"Looking at buying a used Mini 14 581. Are they very good shooters at 100 yards?
Thanks"...
Note that his first sentence identifies the "581" gun which he is looking at as belonging to a specific era of serial number prefixes, all of which share the exact-same (latest) improvements.
In other words, the gun in question is of the "new and improved" variety, so it follows that whatever results have been obtained while using those particular versions are the only results which can accurately be applied to his (also very specific) "Are they very good shooters at 100 yards?" question...
Not really anything there which requires any "interpreting" by anyone who knows anything at all about the newest Mini platform, eh?...or as far as that goes, nothing in the EXACT question which needs "interpreted" by anyone who knows anything at all about US measurement in terms of distance...just sayin'.
Point is, not only is the question at hand rather specific and easy to understand by anyone whom is actually qualified to answer it...there is not one single aspect to it that so much as even hints at it being an "what do you guys think of the Mini-14/30 in general" question, let alone it being any sort of a "can your gun can pee further than your brother's gun" question...again, just sayin'.
So with all of that in mind...I'm purty-dern sure that Steve's response not only fit very well into the question at hand, but also offered some very solid/useful suggestions relative to getting the most out of a newer Mini-14 to boot.
And just in passing...you may find it noteworthy that Steve not only has quite a bit of verifiable Mini-14 experience, but that he was also a military armorer during the M1/M14 era...so yeah, he does know exactly what he's talking about when it comes to anything related to those types of rifles/carbines...so then there's that.
DGW
Jimbo357mag
Hawkeye
Did anyone mention they shoot very well, they operate very reliably, they don't like steel cased ammo and they tent to throw empties 30-60 feet if the gas port isn't adjusted? Just an observation from the range and knowledge I have learned from reading this forum for many years.
Jimbo357mag said:
Go back and re-read the thread Jimbo.
The answers you seek are right there...and if not, it is because (again), some of what you are asking and/or talking about is independent of the ACTUAL question at hand.
I gotta go now...so I can try to find that little icon which depicts the guy banging his head against a wall...
In the mean time...Please, try and keep up. :lol: :lol: :lol: .
DGW
Buckeye Bill said:
