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 Post subject: Mark II shoulder stock
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Single-Sixer

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:43 pm
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Location: Glen Rose, TX
Before anybody brings it up, I have a gunsmith making a second reciever for this gun with a 16" barrel.

I have been thinking on this one for a while, this week I decided to do something about it. It is basically a rough first draft, but here it is.

This is the bracket
Image

The piece at the back sits low enough to not cause problems with grip. the plates go under the grips, I have longer screws that I am going to cut to length to holf the grips ovet the side plates.
Image

The stock is aluminum rod and screws into the plate at the back and has a lock nut.
Image

Full length
Image

Now that I have this build I am thinking of having my Father's metal shop laser cut the parts and bend the rod to have a very nice version.
Still able to takedown with bracket in place.

Jimmy


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Single-Sixer

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Well, im not sure I "get" this one.... I have a mark I, but cant say I have ever wished it had a shoulder stock..... Of course, I guess thats why there are so many different guns out there, different strokes for differnt folks, as they say..... clever idea though. Good luck with the project....

Oh, and FYI, you have created an NFA restricted weapon, since you dont yet have the 16" bbl reciver. Reguardless of if the pistol reciver is installed on the grip or not, you have the shoulder stock, you have the short barrel, and you dont have the long barrel. Doing thats a no-no, posting about it on the net is just plain silly....


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:07 pm 
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Single-Sixer

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Location: Glen Rose, TX
You can make, and sell shoulderstocks all you want. if the person buying it is going to use it on a gun with a barrel shorter than 16" it is there responsibility to register it as a short-barreled rifle. The part itself is not something that can be registered, registration has to do with the serial number onthe gun. And if a contender doesn't have to be registered, why would a mk II that has both a short and long barrel need to be?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:50 pm 
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Single-Sixer

Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:43 pm
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Location: Glen Rose, TX
Some people have talked about making a carbine out of a mark pistol in the past. I thought it would be fun. I can up with a design that retains all the functions of the pistol, doesn't have to be rmoved for cleaning, and can mass produce if enough people want it.

I like to make things that are different, sometimes people like them, If about 20 or more people like them, I might make a little bit of money. I am building a reliable semi-auto that can be both a rifle or pistol, and not have some long barrel as a pistol. Put it in a case, get a scope with quick detach rings, and it will be a great time at the shooting range. I think anyone who sees it will want to shoot it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:59 am 
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Bearcat
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Location: Georgia
I like your idea. It may not be of great practical benefit but, if you injoy it, who cares?

As a mater of fact I am in the middle of a shoulder stocked Single-Six project.

GHP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:22 am 
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Hawkeye
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dacaur wrote:
Well, im not sure I "get" this one.... I have a mark I, but cant say I have ever wished it had a shoulder stock..... Of course, I guess thats why there are so many different guns out there, different strokes for differnt folks, as they say..... clever idea though. Good luck with the project....

Oh, and FYI, you have created an NFA restricted weapon, since you dont yet have the 16" bbl reciver. Reguardless of if the pistol reciver is installed on the grip or not, you have the shoulder stock, you have the short barrel, and you dont have the long barrel. Doing thats a no-no, posting about it on the net is just plain silly....

I think this is correct. If you don't yet have the 16" barrel, the parts you have on hand comprise an illegal weapon.

When you DO get the barrel, remember to always put that on FIRST, and THEN the stock. In fact, I'm not sure it's even legal to have your adapter on the grip frame (without stock) when the pistol barrel is on the gun.

This is kind of an interesting case because the grip frame is not the controlled part on a Ruger, the "upper" receiver is. :? :? :? It might not be a bad idea to get yourself a second grip frame and "dedicate" it to this project. Might even think about engraving the receiver serial number on the dedicated grip frame.

You could be skating on some thin ice here, and keep in mind that you don't have to be technically illegal for law enforcement to cause you all kinds of problems. Many of them don't know the law, but think they do, and once they've intiated action, many of them will lie and do other unethical things rather than admit they've made a mistake. Seen it happen. :?

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Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:41 am 
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Hawkeye
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Location: 6400' on a crystal AZ mountain
Go buy a Buckmark Rifle.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 8:05 am
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What Snake45 is referring to is "constructive intent".

The safe way to avoid this if building an SBR is to buy the host gun, send in the form 1, and when the form comes back with the stamp on it, purchase the stock and other required parts. That is how I built a Mini Draco SBR. As a result it took a year.

As for the OP, I'd read this: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/ ... 2011-4.pdf


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Hunter

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm
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I think Ruger missed the boat here. They should have made a pistol that used 10/22 magazines, or a carbine that used mkII magazines. A carbine based on a convertible single six would be pretty cool too! Ed

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Hawkeye
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He's not building a SBR. He's building a legal rifle out of a handgun, which is entirely legal without paperwork.

The problem is that the parts he has on hand could be construed as an illegal weapon. Especially right now, since he doesn't yet have the 16" barrelled upper receiver.

The way to REALLY do this safely would be to have your stock mounts on the upper receiver. Then there's never any doubt as to what's going on.

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Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

We will march on a road of bones. --Hunter S. Thompson.

Sat Cong!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Buckeye
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I don't see a problem with what the op posted at all. I may be wrong but he does not even have a serial numbered part that he is working with here. Get the longer barrel installed which he does not have because it is at the smiths , and all is good ehh?

As far as comparing this to a contender and being able to swap barrels...there is an exeption on the contender and only the contender/encore and I don't think it wise to make up your own exception because they are "similar".


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:03 pm 
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Bearcat
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Good pictures. One small suggestion:
Use a wing nut or something else that you can tighten with your fingers instead of the hex nut. Then you won't need a wrench to attach the stock.

GHP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:02 pm 
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Hawkeye
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rugerjunkie wrote:
I don't see a problem with what the op posted at all. I may be wrong but he does not even have a serial numbered part that he is working with here.

You are correct about that BUT if he has a pistol upper half on the premises, he could be in trouble.

The stock and uncontrolled grip frame by themselves aren't illegal. Have a pistol top end anywhere nearby and you're probably playing with fire. :?

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Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

We will march on a road of bones. --Hunter S. Thompson.

Sat Cong!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:24 pm 
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Single-Sixer

Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:22 pm
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Location: Utah, usa
The problem here is not the act of making or owning the shoulder stock. The problem is making or owning the shoulder stock without also having a 16" bbl'd reciver to attach to it. Without that, the ONLY thing that can be done with the stock is to make a short barrel rifle, end of story.

If a farmer buys a truckload of fertilizer and 500 gallons of diesel fuel, thats not a problem, since he has crops to fertilize and a tractor that runs on deisl fuel. OTOH if a 20 year old college student living in an apartment in the city buys a truckload of fertilizer and diesel fuel, thats constructive intent, and he is going to prison. "but I was going to buy a farm" just wouldn't work in that case.... Basically, the same thing applies here. You have a stock with no purpose other than to make a SBR....

If the OP has paperwork and a serial number from the gunsmith making the barrel, that MIGHT work, but I sure wouldn't want to be the first one to test it.... OTOH, if he just called up his gunsmith buddy and said "hey can you build me a 16" barrel for a mark II" or something similar, then he is definitely on the wrong side of the law. When talking NFA weapons, you dont get it first THEN fill out the paperwork. You dont get to take your suppressor home or mount your pistol upper on your rifle lower until AFTER you get your paperwork back from the ATF. Same thing here, you need to get the 16" barrel BEFORE you get the stock.


rugerjunkie wrote:
As far as comparing this to a contender and being able to swap barrels...there is an exeption on the contender and only the contender/encore and I don't think it wise to make up your own exception because they are "similar".


Actually no, The encor/contender ruling does NOT apply ONLY to those guns. Most ATF ruling are like supreme court rulings, which apply to ALL similar cases (e.g. AR-15's), not just the specific case they are ruling on. That ruling would definitely apply here, especialy this part:
Quote:
However, the Court also explained that an NFA firearm is made if aggregated parts are in close proximity such that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make an NFA firearm (e.g., a receiver, an attachable shoulder stock, and a short barrel);
(The full rulling can be found at http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf )

That means that by having the mark II, along with the stock in his house, without having the 16" barreled reciver, even if they are not attached to each other, he has made an NFA regulated firearm (a short barrel rifle) Basically, it is the same thing as owning an AR-15 lower, an AR-15 rifle/carbine stock, and an AR-15 pistol upper, but NOT owning an AR-15 rifle/carbine upper. Its the STOCK that gets you in trouble. Because since you dont have the rifle/carbine upper, the stock serves no other purpose than to manufacture a short barrel rifle. Get rid of the stock or get a rifle/carbine upper and you are back in compliance....


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:31 pm 
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Hawkeye
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dacaur, that's a great and easily understood explanation. Thanks! :wink:

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Steel cuts flesh. Steel cuts bone. Steel does not cut steel. --Stephen Hunter, The 47th Samurai.

We will march on a road of bones. --Hunter S. Thompson.

Sat Cong!


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