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WIL TERRY
Buckeye
Define " jams up".
WIL TERRY
Buckeye
Of course it is not common. BUT...just to make sure swab out the charge holes with a TIGHT new cleaning brush and some solvent. BRUSH off the cylinder ratchets and the full standing breech of that pistol.
THEN...load some new 22LR cartridges and make sure---SURE---you are thumbing them all the way home and not leaving them a few thousands high. SOME Ruger 22 pistols have really---REALLY---tight charge holes [ these are the ones that almost always shoot the best...] and some cartridges will be a PITA in that pistol. BUY those that are not for everyday shootin'/plinkin' fun.
And make sure the cylinder pin is all the way in and latched tight. TIGHT !!
And so it goes...
THEN...load some new 22LR cartridges and make sure---SURE---you are thumbing them all the way home and not leaving them a few thousands high. SOME Ruger 22 pistols have really---REALLY---tight charge holes [ these are the ones that almost always shoot the best...] and some cartridges will be a PITA in that pistol. BUY those that are not for everyday shootin'/plinkin' fun.
And make sure the cylinder pin is all the way in and latched tight. TIGHT !!
And so it goes...
Tried federal, remington thunderbolts and CCi minimags. I made sure the cylinder ,chambers and inside the frame were spotless.
One thin that I noticed is that the cylinder seems large for this gun. it is hard to see any light between the front of the cylinder and the back of the barrel and between the back of the cylinder and the frame.
I know cnc is allowing close tolerances these days but wow!
One thin that I noticed is that the cylinder seems large for this gun. it is hard to see any light between the front of the cylinder and the back of the barrel and between the back of the cylinder and the frame.
I know cnc is allowing close tolerances these days but wow!
if you see little or no light between the cyl and the rear of the barrel , look if there are rubbing marks on the face of the cylinder, then you KNOW you have no headspace ( gap),,,,,,,could be easily enough "adjusted ( refit) but that should not have to be YOUR problem/issue on a brand new firearm.......
Bearcats have very little room for error, so the least thing "wrong" ( out of tolerance) causes issues.
Bearcats have very little room for error, so the least thing "wrong" ( out of tolerance) causes issues.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
mc1911 said:
Hi,
"It ain't the tool, it's the technology" is my own version of the old adage "It's a poor workman who blames his tools."
Welcome to the world of Ruger quality control!
Next step, send it back, and IF they get it fixed right the FIRST time, take a big swig of the Kool Aid and tell us how great their customer service is! Wait until you get the gun back and working, then write to Mr. Fifer about your experiences... being sure to remember what rugerguy (Dan's a pro, not just some guy tossing out opinions!) told you: this should NOT be your problem with a new gun. Let us know what he tells you! He may tell you how the company's got a defect rate of less than 1% or blah, blah, but that means nothing when YOUR failure rate is 100%. It's a big difference... and he needs to be reminded of that fact.Also, if you make sure to personally inspect ANY Ruger before purchasing it in the future, new or old, it might save you a lot of time and money getting stuff fixed that shouldn't be broke in the first place...
Good luck!
Rick C
Bearcat
Blackhawk
mc1911 said:
Many people have wondered that. As noted above, my 'failure rate" with Special Editions is 100%. Had one of the flattop .45 Colt/ .45 ACP Blackhawks in stainless. visible burrs on the cylinder ratchet and in the lock work. Also arrived very dirty....Like it had been used as a "range day" gun. Very disappointed. It may be general Ruger QA/QC nowadays, but I think that they give less attention to the batches that they make on a distributor order compared to their general production. Everybody says I am wrong about this, but personal experience trumps everybody else's opinion in my book.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
Bearcat said:
Hi,
I'd accept your personal experience and suggest the problem's nothing new! At the risk of being repetitive and beating that dead horse some more:
I went to work for a gunsmith in 1980. He'd just bought the trap & skeet range I'd worked at on and off from about 1967 when I'd just gotten out of high school and first met him, and I ran the range for a number of years. He moved his gunshop to the range shortly after, and I was in and out of the shop daily. Sometimes it was just a quickie trip, taking in guns brought in for repair after hours at the clubhouse, or picking some up to be delivered later that evening. There were plenty of other times I had time to watch and learn, too.
Over the years, I got a real earful about Ruger's supposed "quality control." The gunsmiths working in the shop had a saying that "Rugers are kit guns. Buy one, bring it to us, and we'll finish putting it together." Our pistolsmiths were evenly divided between whether they preferred S&W or Colt camps, the old Ford-Chevy thing, but preferences aside, they all had steady work with Rugers. They did a nice job of it, too! The same job "Ruger should have done at the factory," according to everyone from my boss on down... and they very seldom had "come backs."
Since 1980, I've owned a few Rugers, and shot many more, though nowhere near what some folks here have. I currently own five Rugers, a 10/22 and four handguns. My Redhawk was bought used, the rest new, and it's the ONLY one that hasn't had "problems." The four new ones all had QC problems, some of which I could take care of using bits and pieces of knowledge I'd picked up in the shop, but shouldn't have had to! My Bisley never should have left the factory, but it did, and fixing its problems rise to real gunsmith level at the least. A trip to the factory would probably be in order for most owners, but I'm one of those guys who figures if they couldn't make it right the first time, how well are they going to fix it? So it sits locked up and I don't shoot it much any more. That's too bad, cuz it could be my favorite gun minus the grief.
Ruger has lost me as a "new" purchaser because my "failure rate" is 80% on those guns I have, and I'm just selfish enough to put my own experience in front of other people's when it comes to spending my hard earned money. One of our pistolsmiths retired and went to work as a salesman at an LGS for a couple of years. Talking with him about buying a new Ruger one day--they sold a lot of 'em--he joked that buying a Ruger's never dull: you just never know what you're gonna get! Pretty bad joke, isn't it? At least for me, as I have neither the money nor inclination for gambling, on the tables, at the track or with new guns at the LGS.
Even so, I still like a number of Ruger's guns so I try to remain an optimist as some of my old boss' words echo in the background, and hope someday he'll be proven wrong: "Ruger's designed a lot of really good guns. They just haven't made one of 'em yet." So when folks ask me whether they should buy a Ruger, I try to explain my experiences with the caveats I've learned over the years while trying not to bad mouth the product. Some do buy Rugers, but a number of other manufacturers have benefited from my stories. I wonder how many other people's stories have cost Ruger sales, too?
Remember Ford's advertising campaign some years back: "Quality is Job One"? Without getting into arguments about whether they really delivered on it, it's something I believe every manufacturer should keep as a goal. I've written Mr. Fifer about this issue, and sadly, it appears Ruger's selling enough guns he doesn't much care. Maybe if EVERY Ruger owner who has a problem, even minor, would apply the same criteria to their guns they do to many other products, and started sending the guns back "to be finished," things would change? Y'all pay enough for a product that works properly from the get go, demand it be so!
Sorry, dead horse, I'm afraid you're gonna take a few more licks before we can let you rest...
Rick C
I agree 100%......................When a company's customer service is more well known than the guns themselves, there is a problem. Like you, I have had several guns that SHOULD have gone back, but I fixed them myself.
Everyone thinks you are bashing their beloved company when you say stuff like this..........well dammit, SOMEBODY needs to say something other than "just send it back, they will fix it right up for you". If not held responsible, they will never BE responsible
Everyone thinks you are bashing their beloved company when you say stuff like this..........well dammit, SOMEBODY needs to say something other than "just send it back, they will fix it right up for you". If not held responsible, they will never BE responsible
Sorry to hear your trouble, but threads like these with the negative pile-on's and me-too's about faulty factory guns need a little perspective IMHO.... Ruger puts out quite a few guns, I'm sure not 100% are perfect, but:
My Bearcat Shopkeeper is awesome. Got it today, and put 100 rounds through it. 100% reliable and very accurate. 25 yards off a bench it shot less than 2". With my 49 year old eyes and a notch non-adjustable sight, I'll take it ;-)
The cylinder tolerances are very close, but I like that as a) there is little to no spitting of lead/flame between the cylinder and forcing cone and b) the two CCI ammo's I tried (standard velocity and 40g MiniMag) seem to like the close fit for accuracy.
Very satisfied.
Ruger is 4 for 4 for me in the last 12 months or so, all good.
My Bearcat Shopkeeper is awesome. Got it today, and put 100 rounds through it. 100% reliable and very accurate. 25 yards off a bench it shot less than 2". With my 49 year old eyes and a notch non-adjustable sight, I'll take it ;-)
The cylinder tolerances are very close, but I like that as a) there is little to no spitting of lead/flame between the cylinder and forcing cone and b) the two CCI ammo's I tried (standard velocity and 40g MiniMag) seem to like the close fit for accuracy.
Very satisfied.
Ruger is 4 for 4 for me in the last 12 months or so, all good.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
dcxplant said:
Hi,
Glad to hear it. If I had that kind of luck, I'd be buying lottery tickets right and left...
Did you manage to get good ones by just picking one off the shelf and walking out with it as so many buyers EXPECT to be able to do, or do you use my brother in law's approach? He loves his Rugers, and has yet to have a problem with one. HOWEVER, he hand picks 'em before starting the paperwork, and has rejected as many as a half dozen specimens before starting the paperwork. He's rather patient about such things.
I'm not. A gentleman named Dr. W. Edwards Deming convinced a lot of companies I needn't be...
Rick C
Rick,
So far I have bought only one gun via 'net, the 22/45 Lite. The mags would not drop free, I had to grab them and pull them down. I saw that the heel of my hand was on the rear part of the mag that sticks up keeping the mag from dropping. So for this pistol I have to shift my grip a bit to get the mag to drop. More of a design issue than QC, as I see no purpose to that section of baseplate going up the back of the grip frame.
Deal killer? Not really sure. I was hoping to use this pistol in some fun steel action instead of a .40, 9mm, or .45 to save dough, but with this design I can't get the mag changes up to speed, so this is a plinker pistol and I won't use it on a timer.
Had I noticed this before buying I would have bought knowing from the get-go to use it to goof with and not try to compete (not that it's some sort of Olympic competition but still).
I did look at two different Bearcat Shopkeepers and picked the best, and to answer your question in general, I do handle firearms before buying, and my experience with my one online purchase reinforces my habit. I like saving a buck, but most of the time with shipping and a transfer, the savings tend to disappear so I'd rather buy local.
LGS's in my area will price match, and being lucky enough to live in the highly gun-friendly state of AZ with lots of LGS's to chose from, there are a lot of places to find what I'm looking for in stock.
As to large factory ops... I hear ya. If I want as close to perfection in something, I'll spend the extra money on custom or semi-custom, or have someone modify off the rack to my specs. This is true about my guns and my motorcycles.
The higher the fit, finish, quality, and design a person wants then the more one has to pay. So far I think Ruger puts out a good product at a fair price. Something not possible with a man and a file sitting at a bench spending a week fitting parts together for one gun.
The important thing for mass manufacturers is how they treat the customer when a bad item shows up. The good ones make it right, and the crooks let the customer hang. It may be a PITA to ship a product back, but the upside is lower prices.
The market demands low prices. Something has to give, and old-school workmanship and design is what takes a back seat. I don't fault Ruger or any other big manufacturer for giving what mass consumers whant; low prices. Ruger puts out very nice firearms at very competitive prices. This allows me to have 3 versions of the of thier .22 pistols instead of one, or none at all. Guess how many Nighthawk or Ed Brown 1911's I have?
Happy shooting
So far I have bought only one gun via 'net, the 22/45 Lite. The mags would not drop free, I had to grab them and pull them down. I saw that the heel of my hand was on the rear part of the mag that sticks up keeping the mag from dropping. So for this pistol I have to shift my grip a bit to get the mag to drop. More of a design issue than QC, as I see no purpose to that section of baseplate going up the back of the grip frame.
Deal killer? Not really sure. I was hoping to use this pistol in some fun steel action instead of a .40, 9mm, or .45 to save dough, but with this design I can't get the mag changes up to speed, so this is a plinker pistol and I won't use it on a timer.
Had I noticed this before buying I would have bought knowing from the get-go to use it to goof with and not try to compete (not that it's some sort of Olympic competition but still).
I did look at two different Bearcat Shopkeepers and picked the best, and to answer your question in general, I do handle firearms before buying, and my experience with my one online purchase reinforces my habit. I like saving a buck, but most of the time with shipping and a transfer, the savings tend to disappear so I'd rather buy local.
LGS's in my area will price match, and being lucky enough to live in the highly gun-friendly state of AZ with lots of LGS's to chose from, there are a lot of places to find what I'm looking for in stock.
As to large factory ops... I hear ya. If I want as close to perfection in something, I'll spend the extra money on custom or semi-custom, or have someone modify off the rack to my specs. This is true about my guns and my motorcycles.
The higher the fit, finish, quality, and design a person wants then the more one has to pay. So far I think Ruger puts out a good product at a fair price. Something not possible with a man and a file sitting at a bench spending a week fitting parts together for one gun.
The important thing for mass manufacturers is how they treat the customer when a bad item shows up. The good ones make it right, and the crooks let the customer hang. It may be a PITA to ship a product back, but the upside is lower prices.
The market demands low prices. Something has to give, and old-school workmanship and design is what takes a back seat. I don't fault Ruger or any other big manufacturer for giving what mass consumers whant; low prices. Ruger puts out very nice firearms at very competitive prices. This allows me to have 3 versions of the of thier .22 pistols instead of one, or none at all. Guess how many Nighthawk or Ed Brown 1911's I have?
Happy shooting
Rick Courtright said:dcxplant said:
Hi,
Glad to hear it. If I had that kind of luck, I'd be buying lottery tickets right and left...
Did you manage to get good ones by just picking one off the shelf and walking out with it as so many buyers EXPECT to be able to do, or do you use my brother in law's approach? He loves his Rugers, and has yet to have a problem with one. HOWEVER, he hand picks 'em before starting the paperwork, and has rejected as many as a half dozen specimens before starting the paperwork. He's rather patient about such things.
I'm not. A gentleman named Dr. W. Edwards Deming convinced a lot of companies I needn't be...
Rick C
