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 Post subject: Passed on an LCR today
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:31 pm 
Blackhawk

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 752
Location: ky
Went shopping for a new pocket gun today. Came home witth a S&W Centennial 442.

The LCR at the LGS had the wonderful trigger everyone has been raving about. BUT, the gun is just a tad bigger than the 442. Coupled with the speedloader issue, where J frame loaders are not optimal, the fact the LCR is still unproven, Ruger's dismal recent track record with new intros, all combined to make me pass on the LCR.

If a couple of years go by and the LCR hasn't exibited any major flaws I think it will make a dandy belt gun. It was tempting today but I just couldn't make myself break my "buy no first model year" gun rule.

Guess my next Ruger will be the Blawhawk 357!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:51 pm 
Single-Sixer
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 114
Location: Wasilla Alaska
What speed loader issue are you talking about? On my LCR the Houge grips don't work well the a speed loader but the Crimson Trace grips work fine, I use the same speed loader that I use for my SP101 ie a 36A. So I guess a grip change solves that problem.

As far as being scared of a new model I can see your point there, but I have a feeling the LCR is and will be a great snubby. Nothing wrong with your S&W though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:04 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 752
Location: ky
NM,

There have been reports on this and other forums, as well as written reviews, that the J frame HKS speedloader will bind if the cartridges are inserted very far into the cylinder.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:33 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 10612
Location: Rugerville, AZ
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speed loads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speedloader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:47 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 156
Location: E. Oregon
I wonder where all those first run, unproven, MK I's, Bearcats, 10/22's, 10/44's, Single Sixes, Black Hawks, Old Army's, and Number 1's, etc. are right now.

And mohavesam, you make a good point about speed loading. If you think you may need more than 5, carry a SR-9.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:00 am 
Hawkeye
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:01 am
Posts: 11183
Location: PA
DMZ wrote:
I wonder where all those first run, unproven, MK I's, Bearcats, 10/22's, 10/44's, Single Sixes, Black Hawks, Old Army's, and Number 1's, etc. are right now.


Those models were released when Bill was alive and running the show and Ruger didn't have the 'new release reputation' that they now have after the disastrous P345, LCP, and SR9 releases (oh for three). Ruger is a different company now, although their service is still mostly very good, considering the amount of repairs and recalls they've had to deal with.

You certainly can't fault someone for being cautious with a new Ruger, especially one so revolutionary as the LCR.

REV


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:10 am 
Single-Sixer
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Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 114
Location: Wasilla Alaska
mohavesam wrote:
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speedloads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speed loader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:
Well I speed load my snubbies all the time,you must practice if you wish to become proficient in their use. (So I must be full of tactical BS)

What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:42 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:01 pm
Posts: 478
Location: On the Border
I too wanted an LCR until I shot a buddy's. I loved the action and it shot great, BUT it shot high (which I can live with and possibly regulate with ammo) but also about 6" left for eveyone who shot it. There is no way to turn the barrel or drift a sight. I refuse to own a defense arm that shoots 6" off to one side at 15 yds. Three or more seasoned shooters, including myself, all had groups approx. 6" left so it was the gun.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:01 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:01 am
Posts: 10612
Location: Rugerville, AZ
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:32 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 854
Location: NE Ohio
mohavesam wrote:
I still have not seen any "torture test" report or article for the LCR.

Who "speed loads" a belly gun anyway. That is just alot of armchair-tactical BS. I have always been taught that the "speedloader" is your option to RUN away, after five shots, if the threat is still there.

No jury is going to sympathize with someone who stayed around and reloaded.

:shock:


Respectfully, you are dead wrong about this. Speedloads should be practiced every time you shoot your "belly gun". Reloads should also be carried every time you carry a gun, belly gun or not.

The only thing that is constant about lethal-force scenarios is that every one is different. Some may well require a reload, some may not. Some may be resolved by just showing the gun and some may require that you actually shoot the BG. Although a lot of people like to poo-poo this thought, some may take place at longer ranges (25+ yds) and some may take place at bad-breath ranges.

Every time I go to the range, I practice speedloading my SP101 and shooting at longer ranges (25+ yds). While the odds are very low that I will have to reload or make shots longer than 10-15 feet, they do happen on occasion. Failing to plan for this or practice means that you are likely to fail if you are ever in this situation. Even if your situation is handled with 2-3 rounds, would you like to be standing there (or running away) with an empty gun, or would you like to at least have the option to reload before you take off, just in case the BG you just shot is not alone?

If you plan on only shooting what is in the gun and running away, fine, that's your business. But, don't put down those of us that plan for a worst-case scenario and train accordingly.

Bub


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 6:38 am 
Moderator

Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 5155
Location: Carolina Beach, NC
revhigh wrote:
Those models were released when Bill was alive and running the show and Ruger didn't have the 'new release reputation' that they now have after the disastrous P345, LCP, and SR9 releases (oh for three). Ruger is a different company now, although their service is still mostly very good, considering the amount of repairs and recalls they've had to deal with.

You certainly can't fault someone for being cautious with a new Ruger, especially one so revolutionary as the LCR.

REV



Agree 100% Rev.

That's LEAN manufacturing for ya...

_________________
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."

Thomas Jefferson


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:09 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 1692
Location: NC
clayflingythingy wrote:
NM,

There have been reports on this and other forums, as well as written reviews, that the J frame HKS speedloader will bind if the cartridges are inserted very far into the cylinder.

If one just inserts the tip of the bullets and uses gravity to do the rest, a
HKS 36 speed loader works good enough. However, when the range opens tomorrow I plan on getting speed strips and try them.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:19 am 
Single-Sixer
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:01 am
Posts: 114
Location: Wasilla Alaska
mohavesam wrote:
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.
If no sane person trained for a gunfight then places like Gunsite and Lethal Force Institute would not exist.

If you choose not to carry spare ammo or a backup gun then thats your choice, what you do doesnt concern me. Personally I always carry spare ammo, and/or a backup gun, I believe that not doing so puts me at additional risk.

That hesitation and doubt you feel about the consequences of defending yourself could quite possibly be the last thoughts that go through your mind. In my case I know what constitutes the legitimate use of lethal force and what doesnt, I have planned what I`ll do before hand in as many cases as I can dream up (although I think of others all the time). Unlike you I believe it`s quite sane and rational to be prepared, and quite irrational to go about armed with no, spare ammo and no plan of action except retreat.If your main strategy is to run away then so be it. Certainly there are scenarios when retreat is a viable option (faced with overwhelming numbers etc) Other times running away is just plain cowardly (like when your wife is being gang-raped by three ex-cons)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:07 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 2064
Location: florida
One case I read about and it scared me. The cop was using his car as a shield and was shooting over the hood at the BG. The cop's revolver went dry. He stooped over to reload. The BG vaulted over the hood and shot the officer dead while the cop is still reloading. That is a Rosie O’Donnell. I think the BG should go directly to hell, even if the cop was a slow reloader.
Sonnytoo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:01 am 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:12 pm
Posts: 413
Location: Montana
mohavesam wrote:
"What is tactical BS though is planning on getting into a firefight with only five rounds and thinking running away will solve your problem. lol :lol:

As far as the jury, I`d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. The last thing I need is to be worrying about what some brainwashed cherry picked jury is going to think about my actions, when the much more pressing issue is defending my life. If I live through the encounter then I`ll worry about the jury."


BTDT/got the tshirt and no sane person 'plans for a gunfight'; practicing with speedloader doesn't mean one should dine & dance the missus with a half-pound of extra ammo under your tux. The 'tried by twelve...' is kinda cool until you're pointed out from the witness chair. And you think abut your lawyer's hourly rate, just sitting there quietly. Anyone here know of what I speak?

I don't have any advice to anyone except run first if you can.


I'd sure like to see the gun that you carry, if 5, or 6 extra rounds weigh a half a pound. (a sawed off 870, maybe?) :shock:

I've never worn a tux in my life, so I guess I don't have to worry about that.

Earl.


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