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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:45 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 2269
Location: New Orleans, LA
Sonnytoo wrote:
I checked out that load on Google and it's rated at 1610 fps; may be chrono'd out of an 8 3/8" barrel. But either way, you're right on and that's very fast.
The deerhunter at 50 yards might do just as well with 180-240gr bullets at 900-1100 fps and save himself a bit of unnecessary recoil. Will very likely make two holes in a deer at 50 yards, even if a bit of bone gets in the way.
I shoot those calibers and .500 Linebaugh also, but I am not a fan of recoil if it's not called for.
Sonnytoo


I disagree with the proposition that just any old 44 Mag load will do fine. I have found 54 caliber@ 1300 fps with Maxi balls to be ineffective on behind the shoulder shots. Every deer I have shot with that load has run. On the other hand, deer shot with a 50 cal 300 grain Powerbelt HP have all gone down within 50 yards.

The velocity of my 54 is in the same range as your 44. Difference is that I used a larger NON expanding bullet, on the theory that a Maxiball is a pre-expaned bullet. It doesnt work that way. You need both penetration and expansion. By my way of thinking a 240 grain JSP is the right round. I also switched to a high shoulder shot and intend to break bone.

If you take a casual approach to bullet selection, you may end up learning the same lession I did, by tracking a running deer and sometimes never recovering.

You have enough gun. Use enough bullet.

If you find the recoil of the 44 Magnum excessive, you might want to try the 41 Magnum.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:44 am 
Bearcat

Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:57 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Arkansas
I'll add another vote for the Hornady 240gr XTP.

I have used the bullet in revolvers, rifles, and muzzleloaders (sabot) with great success. I have shot quite a few deer with it and ALL have gone down within just a few yards. None needed tracking but all had an exit hole that would have left a nice blood trail if needed.

I have never used the factory ammo but my loads are similar to factory and run from about 1,350 fps (revolver) to 1,800 fps (rifle). This is not especially hot but not exactly recoil friendly either. But, with a little practice I bet you could handle it OK.

I haven't used either lighter bullets or lighter loads on deer but would be pretty confident unless it was an especially large deer or long range. However, since penetration may be reduced somewhat, I would try real hard for a broadside, double lung shot.

Actually, though I have never tried it, I would feel very confident in a 180gr XTP factory load through the lungs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:23 pm 
Blackhawk

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:01 am
Posts: 811
Location: Linn Creek MO
Since you asked for "factory" ammo, I suggest two. The Winchester Partition Gold, loaded with the 250 gr Nosler Partition. This load has proven AWESOME on white tails. It is pricey ammo, but is your hunt worth a few more $$ ?

Also the Black Hills 240 gr JHP is factory loaded with the Hornady XTP bullet. I, like others, have had good success with this bullet too. I have not used the factory loads, but the bullet has worked well and John Taffin speaks highly of this factory load.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:03 am 
Bearcat

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 35
I have used factory 240gr XTP,s and 210gr silver tips on east Texas deer and both seem to work fine.
For hand loading, I have discovered that a 240gr Laser Cast SWC with 22gr of IMR4227 and CCI magnum pistol primers works GREAT out to about 50 yards in my 4 3/4 SBH and GREAT to 75+ yards from my 8 3/8 model 29. The recoil is very manageable, it will push through moderate brush to get to the target, and a good shoulder hit will pick a deer up and move him over a foot or two before he drops.
I found that Laser Cast bullets don't lead my barrel. Every other cast bullet I have tried with this required a gas check.
I hope this helps.
Thanks
Matt


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:42 am 
Hunter
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 1:27 pm
Posts: 2523
Location: carroll county ms
mstan99999 wrote:
I have used factory 240gr XTP,s and 210gr silver tips on east Texas deer and both seem to work fine.
For hand loading, I have discovered that a 240gr Laser Cast SWC with 22gr of IMR4227 and CCI magnum pistol primers works GREAT out to about 50 yards in my 4 3/4 SBH and GREAT to 75+ yards from my 8 3/8 model 29. The recoil is very manageable, it will push through moderate brush to get to the target, and a good shoulder hit will pick a deer up and move him over a foot or two before he drops.
I found that Laser Cast bullets don't lead my barrel. Every other cast bullet I have tried with this required a gas check.
I hope this helps.
Thanks
Matt



This is the exact load I use for my practice/light loads.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:59 am 
Bearcat

Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:50 pm
Posts: 33
Location: North Louisiana
Thanks everyone for the replies. Whitetail are tough animals. I take most with a scoped 30-06 vintage 721 remington, circa 1952 8) but I have shot a couple with my 375 H&H Mag. with 270 gr bullets traveling @ about 2800 fps. Shot a doe with said load broadside at 35 yards. Square pass-through the lungs. The deer ran about 45 yards before she fell. They are tough animals. To the credit of my shoulder fired cannon, it looked as though a fire hose was pumping blood behind her :wink:

After shooting that big rifle for years, most other guns feel like plinkers, even the 44 mag revolver. Unless of course you move into the 416 Rigby, 458 win mag, 460 weatherby, et al.

Take it to the range here where most are shooting 300 mags, 7 mm mags, 270, 06' and the like, and you can get most folks attention VERY quick when you touch off a HOT, and I mean HOT 375 H&H round. :shock:
It's a long way from being the KING but it is the QUEEN of the medium bore long gun and much further ahead than what many shoot. I know, I know this is a Ruger forum, so I'll stop singing its praises.
Anyway, I think I will hang around the 240 gr class in this beast 44 mag and keep shots less than 50 yards for now.

Thanks so much for the input. It has been helpful. Now, if I can just learn to shoot this thing more accurately. I can put six shots in a tea cup at 20 yards with my 357 mag 686 smith offhand, but I did good to put 6 shots into a 5 gallon bucket at that range with my new to me SBH. I know it is not the gun, I just got to get the nack of shooting this revolver.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:39 am 
Hunter
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2002 2:01 am
Posts: 4164
Location: Idaho
I have shot several mule deer and 3 elk with a 44 magnum. None went more than a few yds. and all were 1 shot kills. I have also shot a doe mule deer with a Ruger #1 in 375 H&H Magnum. The deer was 200 yds away and at the shot spun 1/2 way around in the air. Went about 10 yds and collapsed. When my son and I got up to the deer it looked like it had damned near bled to death in those 10 yds. So yes thats a powerful round!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:44 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 6048
Location: charles city . va
My7 1/2" SBH likes this load so it's what I hunt with A240gr XPT over 23.4grs of H-110 now this is a stout load but like the others said a 180 gr will do the trick on whittail .With this load this gun will shoot tighter groups than I can hold it .If I give it to one of my younger friends that can still see they can keep the groups close to an inch or so at 25 yards me I can keep them on a paper plate at 50 yards and thats good enough for whitetail

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:15 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 2064
Location: florida
surveyor47 wrote:
Sonnytoo wrote:
I checked out that load on Google and it's rated at 1610 fps; may be chrono'd out of an 8 3/8" barrel. But either way, you're right on and that's very fast.
The deerhunter at 50 yards might do just as well with 180-240gr bullets at 900-1100 fps and save himself a bit of unnecessary recoil. Will very likely make two holes in a deer at 50 yards, even if a bit of bone gets in the way.
I shoot those calibers and .500 Linebaugh also, but I am not a fan of recoil if it's not called for.
Sonnytoo


I disagree with the proposition that just any old 44 Mag load will do fine. I have found 54 caliber@ 1300 fps with Maxi balls to be ineffective on behind the shoulder shots. Every deer I have shot with that load has run. On the other hand, deer shot with a 50 cal 300 grain Powerbelt HP have all gone down within 50 yards.

The velocity of my 54 is in the same range as your 44. Difference is that I used a larger NON expanding bullet, on the theory that a Maxiball is a pre-expaned bullet. It doesnt work that way. You need both penetration and expansion. By my way of thinking a 240 grain JSP is the right round. I also switched to a high shoulder shot and intend to break bone.

If you take a casual approach to bullet selection, you may end up learning the same lession I did, by tracking a running deer and sometimes never recovering.

You have enough gun. Use enough bullet.

If you find the recoil of the 44 Magnum excessive, you might want to try the 41 Magnum.


I was speaking of using a Keith-style hardcast SWC bullet with a meplat of about .340" or larger. I'm only stating what has been written often before, by folks with a bit of experience, such as John Linebaugh or J. Marshall Stanton of Beartooth Bullets, of which a fraction of his writing is quoted below:
"Putting aside game outside the lower 48 states, and looking at strictly deer, pronghorn and average black bear sized critters, an effective hunting load need not be over 1100-1200 fps with careful bullet selection. In fact, both my experience, those of hunting partners, and countless customers attests to the fact that cast bullet loads with muzzle velocities in the 1000 to 1100 fps category are truly amazing in their terminal performance! " (Stanton)
Once you've made two holes, you can do no more. Of course I agree that breaking bones will anchor the animal more quickly...but will ruin a lot of meat in the process. I have ruined lots of meat before; just don't think it's necessary.
If you don't push a shot deer that has two holes, even a lung shot, he will lie down within 50 yds or so and bleed out rather quickly.
I have shot my .500 Linebaugh, 450gr @ 1400 fps quite a bit over 11 yrs, with very little thought of recoil, although my hand does get a bit sore after a session. And that recoil is 42 ft-pounds compared to 16 ft-pounds for the fast .44 mag round. I guess recoil is not my concern.
Different strokes is all.
Sonnytoo


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:27 pm 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 6048
Location: charles city . va
surveyor47 wrote:
Sonnytoo wrote:
I checked out that load on Google and it's rated at 1610 fps; may be chrono'd out of an 8 3/8" barrel. But either way, you're right on and that's very fast.
The deerhunter at 50 yards might do just as well with 180-240gr bullets at 900-1100 fps and save himself a bit of unnecessary recoil. Will very likely make two holes in a deer at 50 yards, even if a bit of bone gets in the way.
I shoot those calibers and .500 Linebaugh also, but I am not a fan of recoil if it's not called for.
Sonnytoo


I disagree with the proposition that just any old 44 Mag load will do fine. I have found 54 caliber@ 1300 fps with Maxi balls to be ineffective on behind the shoulder shots. Every deer I have shot with that load has run. On the other hand, deer shot with a 50 cal 300 grain Powerbelt HP have all gone down within 50 yards.

The velocity of my 54 is in the same range as your 44. Difference is that I used a larger NON expanding bullet, on the theory that a Maxiball is a pre-expaned bullet. It doesnt work that way. You need both penetration and expansion. By my way of thinking a 240 grain JSP is the right round. I also switched to a high shoulder shot and intend to break bone.

If you take a casual approach to bullet selection, you may end up learning the same lession I did, by tracking a running deer and sometimes never recovering.

You have enough gun. Use enough bullet.

If you find the recoil of the 44 Magnum excessive, you might want to try the 41
Magnum.

thats odd my .54 cal hawken with 360gr tc maxihunters in front of 90grs of pyrodex with a lung/heart shot ether drops them on the spot or they may run no more thah 50 tards this guy only went about 30 yards
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:09 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:01 am
Posts: 164
Location: lafayette Louisiana
HEY : the deer I get to shoot here in La. are not so large as to require a large heavy round; but I am old fashioned and suggest for a plinker : either 8, 9 or 10 grains of unique moving up the ladder of recoil just a little at a time.. won't make a lot of difference to go to the ten grains once you have shot at shorter range for a while... I have killed them with the 8 grains of unique and a 240 grain semi wadcutter keith style bullet and it performs quite well.
recoil is minimal with the eight grain load, and it is easy enough to punch out a bunch of them and go shooting getting the muscle memory ingrained as needed for later when the heat is on.
I also cook up some other loads in the 12 - 1300 fps range with 2400, and there are some red dot or green dot loads you can look up... the black hills are great rounds in any persuasion... any of the 240 grain factory loads would net you a whitetail with good placement... I have little doubt that a 180 would do the trick but we are talking about perfect placement shots in the rib cage area and no mistakes... if you are going with the light bullets, then I would not push them too fast if there was any chance of hitting a large bone on a large deer or trying to peirce the length of the deer quartering through...I would fear too much expansion with a hit any place but the ribs, and would fear driving the bullet too fast would make that fear more likely to be a reality..
in short, it is a large bore pistol and unless you are willing to limit the shots and not give in to driving the lighter handloaded 180 faster than necessary, you could end up with a mistake and a sad tale to tell...
with a 240 or 250 in 44 or 45 the lungs are a good target but the shoulders will work, dead on from the front will work, any angle will likely work out just fine... if you want to go completely end to end and break a hip with entry and shoulder with exit : I would pump the 300 grain flat points out the front of the 44 and bring the camera to teh autopsy, cause there is no bone that will be unbroken and the bullet will not stop inside any deer around...
when it comes to the factory loads the problem will be finding enough to shoot enough and dealing with the full recoil from the start... I like to start with the same bullet and load it up over my practice time... 8 gr. unique was just a fun little load for shooting sticks, cans, posts, shearing off one inch limbs from downed trees, ... just FUN.
dk


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:35 am 
Single-Sixer
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Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:09 pm
Posts: 336
Location: The Ozarks
Well, almost any 44 mag will take a deer down, but my son and I both prefer a lighter bullet, HP, going faster. My current load is a 200 grain JHP over a LOAD of H-110. Velocity is right at 1500 fps, (7.5" SBH Hunter), and the ME is right on 1000 FP. The last buck I shot (small one) went about 25 yards and . . . DRT. Did NOT hit the heart with this one, and yet the internal damage was severe. Bullet was under the hide on the far side. An earlier one, shot with a 240 gr JSP at around 1200 fps dropped in about 35 yards, but he was heart shot. Bullet went straight through.

My son uses 180 grain XTP's over a MAX load of H-110. Run around 1700 fps from a 6.5" S&W 629.

For a 'store-bought' load, we found that the Rem UMC and the PMC - both in 180 grain - are the fastest and highest ME rounds we can buy. Both run between 1650 and 1680 fps from our guns, with the PMC one being just a bit faster. That's over 1100 F-P of ME!

Contrary to what you usually hear, we have found that the PERCEIVED recoil of a light FAST bullet is noticeably HIGHER than that of a heavier bullet going slower. It is a lot 'sharper', whereas the heavier one is more of a 'shove'. But recoil tolerance is very subjective. I don't mind the recoil, and it has never caused me any pain, so . . . .

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:04 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 125
Location: Michigan's U.P.
surveyor47 wrote:
Sonnytoo wrote:
I checked out that load on Google and it's rated at 1610 fps; may be chrono'd out of an 8 3/8" barrel. But either way, you're right on and that's very fast.
The deerhunter at 50 yards might do just as well with 180-240gr bullets at 900-1100 fps and save himself a bit of unnecessary recoil. Will very likely make two holes in a deer at 50 yards, even if a bit of bone gets in the way.
I shoot those calibers and .500 Linebaugh also, but I am not a fan of recoil if it's not called for.
Sonnytoo


I disagree with the proposition that just any old 44 Mag load will do fine. I have found 54 caliber@ 1300 fps with Maxi balls to be ineffective on behind the shoulder shots. Every deer I have shot with that load has run. On the other hand, deer shot with a 50 cal 300 grain Powerbelt HP have all gone down within 50 yards.

The velocity of my 54 is in the same range as your 44. Difference is that I used a larger NON expanding bullet, on the theory that a Maxiball is a pre-expaned bullet. It doesnt work that way. You need both penetration and expansion. By my way of thinking a 240 grain JSP is the right round. I also switched to a high shoulder shot and intend to break bone.

If you take a casual approach to bullet selection, you may end up learning the same lession I did, by tracking a running deer and sometimes never recovering.

You have enough gun. Use enough bullet.

If you find the recoil of the 44 Magnum excessive, you might want to try the 41 Magnum.


I've got to join those who find your observation curious. I've shot a fair number of whitetails with a 50 cal. Thompson Renegade (90 gr. FF behind a 370 gr. Maxi). I found it a VERY dependable load. Lung shot deer never went far.

I've only taken two deer with my SBH, both with stoutly loaded 240 XTPs. It was also effective. I've loaded some 300 gr. WFN hard cast bullets but haven't yet tried them on game.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:13 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:31 pm
Posts: 111
Groo here
Anything factory load not listed for self defence will be fine..
Any load much over 250gr flat nosed bullet will not be needed
unless your gun realllly likes them..
Just not much in a deer to stop a hard cast or jacket bullet at 300gr and
1200 under 50yds even if you hit bone


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