180 Grain Hard Cast in GP100

I was looking for a good .357 round to carry in my GP100 for bears. Black bears that is. I see that Buffalo Bore and Underwood both offer a 180 grain hard cast. Having never shot anything over 158 grains in .357 I'm wondering about recoil, wear on the gun, and any other unknown issues from shooting that heavy a bullet in .357. Any information or advice would be appreciated.

I wish I could give you a GP-100 specific answer. I have shot a lot of home cast 170+ grain Keith bullets over (near max by the book) 2400. They shoot well in a single action. Buffalo Bore is known to be pretty hot so I would expect more recoil. If the load fits in your cylinder I would say that you will wear out before the gun will. By that I mean that you should be ok shooting these enough to be confident in your ability to hit with it and carry it as needed.

Out of curiosity, what is your barrel length?

Uhh,, a 180 grn bullet is just fine in a GP-100.
The biggest issue is how hard, how fast, & the alloy mix. Lead is lead & using cast requires a bit more attention to detail on fitting the bullet diameter to the chamber throats & bore.
May I suggest you look hard at a Powder Coated bullet for your purposes?
Powder coating is a better choice than lubed lead as it's more "forgiving" & almost never leads a barrel. Plus,, you can shoot them as fast & even a bit faster than normal lubed lead cast bullets.
I'm casting & shooting a 195 grn cast & powder coated bullet in my .357 Maxi with a velocity of around 1450 fps w/o ANY issues,, and superb accuracy.
Find a good cast & PCed bullet of your choice & have at it. But remember it's diameter is still important. I'd try .358 in general to start if you can't slug your bore, or have pin gauges to check the throats.

As for recoil,, there is most often a difference in felt recoil when changing from light to heavy or heavy to light. Only you can determine if it's an issue for you.

one bullet said:

Out of curiosity, what is your barrel length?

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It's a 4 inch barrel. I don't reload at all, and know virtually nothing about it. I assumed hard cast would be best, even for black bear, but will stand corrected. Instead of worrying about the 180 grain hard cast I saw available what would be a factory available .357 round that would be effective on black bears? I don't care if it's a jacketed hollow point. I'm just not sure what would be best. It has to be .357 though.

one bullet said:

one bullet said:

Out of curiosity, what is your barrel length?

Click to expand...

It's a 4 inch barrel. I don't reload at all, and know virtually nothing about it. I assumed hard cast would be best, even for black bear, but will stand corrected. Instead of worrying about the 180 grain hard cast I saw available what would be a factory available .357 round that would be effective on black bears? I don't care if it's a jacketed hollow point. I'm just not sure what would be best. It has to be .357 though.

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I don't shoot a GP100 or handload. I do shoot a 4" 686 S&W and I use Federal 180gr hard cast factory loads. I have found the Federal load to be very accurate and recoil very manageable. Seeing as the GP100 is a little more robust than the 686 I would foresee no issues. JMHO and experience.

To be clear, I would NEVER hunt bear with a 357, but if I was hiking in the woods and was carrying a 357, it would be loaded with 180gr hard cast ammo.

one bullet said:

one bullet said:

Out of curiosity, what is your barrel length?

Click to expand...

It's a 4 inch barrel. I don't reload at all, and know virtually nothing about it. I assumed hard cast would be best, even for black bear, but will stand corrected. Instead of worrying about the 180 grain hard cast I saw available what would be a factory available .357 round that would be effective on black bears? I don't care if it's a jacketed hollow point. I'm just not sure what would be best. It has to be .357 though.

Click to expand...

If hunting black bears, say from a stand, I would expect broadside shots and would use a 158 grain hollowpoint. If for potential self defense I would use a 158+ grain hard cast lead Keith style bullet. This will improve penetration which is more important than expansion for frontal shots. I would also consider bear spray.

Self defense is my main reason for asking. And yes...pepper spray first if allowed by circumstance. Hopefully I will never need either, as I love to see them in the wild! Just not the aggressive ones.

HSM sells a 180 gr. hard cast lead bear load I shoot fine in my 4" GP 100. Federal sells 180 gr. Jacketed too. The slower 180 hard cast will out penetrate anything out there which is essential to deterring large animals.

I have carried the Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast in .357 mag and the 305 grain in .44 mag and also the HSM bear loads in the same weights and calibers. You will have more noticed recoil and in my opinion, the Buffalo Bore are a little hotter than the HSM. You should have no issues with shooting them out of your GP 100. As far as shooting lead goes, Buffalo Bore hard cast bullets are not all lead. They are mixed with alloys such as tin, silver, antimony and possibly others. I have shot them out of my Blackhawks, Super Blackhawks and even my Security Six and Police Service Six just to check accuracy and the guns all handled them well. As a rule, I don't shoot them or carry them unless I am in bear country as they are an expensive round. I have hunted and taken black bears and rest assured that the 180 grain hard cast will do the job if you do yours and put it where you're supposed to.

"....looking for a good .357 round to carry in my GP100 for bears. Black bears that is."

*****

Sounds as though the idea is self-defense.

Riding mountain bike with granddaughter last week, she spots a black bear at about 70 yards, feeding fresh green grass. Corner of a small hayfield. The bear spotted our movement, probably didn't hear us. And certainly didn't smell us, as a low steady breeze coursed between bear and humans. He regarded us as we stopped, sniffed the air, and resumed his meal. I say "he" because this bear is tall in the shoulders and deep in the chest... and huge. Gorgeous black coat against lush been grass, nature's palette.

The bear will never know that I am packing. In the one-in-a-million chance the bear approaches, I will talk to him. In the event the bear has watched one too many Hollywood movies and decides we represent a risk-free dinner, I have time to whip out the pistol to put a bullet hole in the sky... or earth. We are safe and the bear is safe. We watch the bear for some while----not staring----and he checks us out. Grandpa leans to granddaughter, When we continue on, the bear will melt into the tree line.

Were I to worry about black bears I would read Ben "Bear Man" Kilham's two books, Among the Bears, and its follow-up, Out on a Limb. And watch Discovery Channel and National Geographic films on Kilham's work with black bears. Ben Kilham suggests pepper spray as effective defense.

As Kilham observes, predators prefer to strike from behind, in stealth. Increases the chance of success while reducing risk of injury. Flight may trigger pursuit.

As for hunting black bear, anyone but a bait "hunter" better know what he's doing----the animal's anatomy, nerve control through breathing, marksmanship. And appreciate that poor marksmanship of a maginal cartridge is a blueprint for lost game. Three-fifty-seven is a small hole. In this category, the .357 Maximum pushes a 180 to 200 grain bullet hundreds of FPS faster than a .357 Mag. Limited to the magnum, I'd a Wide Flat Nose close to 200 grains.
David Bradshaw

Mr. Bradshaw, that is a good story.

I've seen a few bears in the wild. Even saw one back in Jersey. We were driving just out of town, and their she was, black, fat and sassy. Very pretty.

I shoot extremely warm loads in my 357 Magnum Bisley, with the 180 grain carbine bullet from my Mihec mold, 1455 fps, which is a stronger platform, but with the GP-100 having the same twist barrel, and a proven platform in it's own due, I will assure you when sized properly, which will be critical if your GP-100 is chambered and throated properly, will be capable of stellar accuracy with this weight bullet. Mine are cast from 70/30 ww/pb alloy with a bit of tin bullion for toughness and cast quality.

Recoil is no issue, but heavy 45 Colt, 460 S&W, 480 Ruger, are all no issue for me, and all are in a league the 357 doesn't enter. Recoil is always a personal subject, that you will have to decide, but I believe your platform is capable!

Funny story..or coincidence....I started this thread on Sunday. Mainly because I plan on carrying my new to me GP100 when working and knocking around the woods near my house in the mountains of NC. I wanted opinions on the best bear defense round.

I get up early every day, anywhere from 4am to 5am. When I get up, my sidekick gets up as well(chihuahua). First order of business is to take him out. It was really foggy here Monday morning and while I was waiting for my buddy to select a spot for his business I detected movement to my left. Well guess what I saw? Yep, a very health black bear walking parallel to me, maybe 25 yards away. He or she wasn't alarmed by my presence at all. The bear didn't move toward me , change direction, or speed. He just went on about his business. My little buddy never knew it was there. When I saw the bear I immediately picked my dog up and he(dog) sensed something was going on and looked at me like "what's up"? The bear continued on his way and I heard him pick up his pace when he got in the brush. I was unarmed. Carry all the time except when I take my dog out.

I never heard him, and I always make noise when I go out to alert anything around that I'm out and about. I never leave trash outside at all. I know that 99% of the time they don't bother you. This one didn't either, but this bear had ample time to go in the opposite direction and avoid me altogether, but he chose to continue on with me standing right there.

Having first hand experience with pepper spray during my 30 years in law enforcement, I know it works most of the time, but not always. We carried some of the hottest stuff around and they sprayed us, and made us fight with someone trying to take our gun. You had to fight through it or go again until you could. So I have no doubts a bear could overcome it if so motivated. So, when convenient I will try to have bear pepper spray, but my first priority is me and my dog. Gun for now on when out with fido! So I appreciate all the ammo advice. Right now my first choice is the Underwood 180 grain, or HSN as a second choice.

This experience didn't scare me, but my other two bear sightings were of the bear getting away from me as fast as it could. I was surprised this one didn't care I was there.
So I think it prudent to be prepared to shoot one if necessary and not trust in pepper spray only.

And in case you're wondering....for now, I'm taking a 40 caliber Glock out with me with 180 grain Gold Dots. For the time being anyway. Not the best choice but better than Monday morning! Carry a 9mm all other times.

Given my choices, if only carrying a handgun, in order of preference would be 629 Classic 44 mag, Sig P220 10mm, and lastly my 686 .357 with hard cast 180gr ammo. Choices based on my current inventory....

If the 357 mag and the 40 S&W are the only two guns you own, yes I would use 180 hard casts. I have had more access to Buffalo Bore than the other two manufactures you mentioned. There can be some big black bears in the Carolina's. I think I would consider getting something a little bigger. I'm partial to either a 44 mag, or a hot 45 Colt. That bear didn't do anything unusual. He also wasn't intimidated apparently he considers that his territory, and their territories can be pretty large and take a few days to make the circle. Guessing it was a larger bear. The bears that take off are worried they are in someone else's territory, and that's risky. Black bears and bear spray, can work but it's not unusual for them to come back. Take care.

I've got several to choose from. I had decided on the GP as a compromise for size and weight. It can also handle the hot, heavy, cast bullets.
I could go with my 4 inch Redhawk in 44 but it's a chunk. I've had it for years and I've never shot it. It's brand new. I don't even have a holster for it. I could also go with my Glock 20 in 10mm. I hate to buy an aftermarket barrel though to shoot lead. I was going with the premise the .357 would be adequate for black bear, but maybe not.

I appreciate all the advice from everyone!

Yes,, we do have some very large (in comparison) black bears in NC. A 500 lb bear is not uncommon,, but also not as often encountered. We have them larger by far,, but in general,, a 300-400 lb black is "normal" in many places.
The bear/caliber/gun debate has raged since man first encountered them.
Pepper spray,, can & is often very effective,, but it too has it's limitations. So do any & all firearms.

AVOIDANCE is the key,, and that's the best thing if at all possible.

But,, if a firearm is to be deployed, then it has to be a type you can handle quickly, capable of reliable follow up shots, have enough stopping power, and the operator has to be efficient in bullet placement.
And gosh forbid,, in the event of an actual attack, allow enough immediate stopping power to prevent as much injury as possible.
The 357, with the ammo mentioned,, can fall into that category,, better than others,, & not as good as some. It's more reliable than a semi-auto in general, capable of quick handling with either hand, and with that ammo, capable of killing a black bear if the bullets are placed in a lethal place. While it may not be a sudden, full bore charge stop in the tracks type,, it can do the job. (Not much can do that kind of sudden stop anyway.)
COMBINED with pepper spray,, it's a good combo to carry for peace of mind in my opinion.

I try to alert them to my presence as I did on this occasion. And the bear did move on, but with an attitude somewhat. I love seeing them but not right up on the house. That usually spells trouble if they don't immediately leave. I don't want to shoot one. I would attempt to back away, but if it pursued I'm shooting.
Having very limited experience with 44 mag factored in to my choosing .357. I've shot .357 a lot. My mind can be changed though. I have no doubt it would take multiple hits to stop a bear most times. I'm a decent shooter on the range...but with a bear coming for me, that could change. A lot harder to shoot under stress and that would be real stress.
If I go with the Redhawk I will need to buy a holster and probably go with Pachmayr Presentation grips. I like the wood factory grips but for shooting revolvers I've always liked Pachmayr's.

You may want to check out the Diamond D Leather "guides choice" chest holster if you decide to pack the Redhawk. I have a couple for my 629 and Sig 10mm. Makes a world of difference than packing on the hip..... And if you are confident in your abilities with the GP, than go with it. Good luck with your decisions....