transfer bar conversion question

when the factory does the transfer bar conversion I understand they stamp a letter on an inside surface . Do they make any changes in the frame? If the answer to this question is NO then why does this devalue an old model , you get the original parts and they can be reinstalled. Is there any machining done to accomodate the transfer bar, changes that would not prevent reinstall of the old parts but would tell it was updated?

As noted,, there are no frame modifications done,, and as long as the original parts are available there is no reduced value to most serious collectors. Gun traders etc MAY try to claim a reduced value. Or,, if the original parts are missing,, then there is a reduction in value,, usually the same amount it will cost to replace those OM parts.

The only permanent modification is a single R stamped under the grip frame where it can not be seen unless you take the grip frame off. One custom gunsmith who happens to also have a law degree will not do custom work on a gun that the factory converted unless the work leaves the conversion part installed.

Good points Robb.

I also understand the lawyer angle.

However,, say person A inherits an OM Ruger,, sees the ad offering the free safety upgrade. Ships it in, and gets his gun back converted & marked.
Person A later gets in a financial bind, and sells his OM to Person B in a private sale,, with the OM parts added.
Later on Person B,, re-converts the OM,, and enjoys it for a while. He passes away,, and a family member, Person C, who has little or no firearm knowledge (for whatever reason,) inherits the OM. They then sell it legally via an auction house to person D. Person D, enjoys said firearm, and later on sells it to person E.
Person E is a firearm idiot who fails to understand the "Load one, skip one, load four" mantra for an OM Ruger. And proceeds to accidentally shoot Person F. Person G is upset, and wants to sue somebody because Person F was their baby.

Who is liable?

This was a discussion I've had several times due to the age of the OM's,, and the timeframe of the safety conversion.
Ruger is "off the hook" because they did the safety conversion.
Person B is off the hook because they are dead.
Person C is not a gun person & had no knowledge of such issues.
Person D may never have had the gun apart,, nor knew about the former conversion or even the safety upgrade. Questionable,, but still plausible deniability.
Person E is liable,,, for failure to follow known firearm safe gun handling rules.

I know this does not include the known professional who does modification work on OM Rugers so marked with the "R".
But is does beg the question; "If that professional does modification work on an OM,, does he get the customer sign a waiver knowing they have a firearm that has been legally determined to be unsafe?" (The original reason Bill Ruger was sued & lost,, giving us the billboard warning and the safety conversion set in the beginning.)

All this is a fun discussion because Miss Penny used to work for a lawyer as a paralegal. We've had several "what if" discussions about this very subject.

To the OP,, sorry for the "hijack" a bit. But it has a little bearing on the POTENTIAL value of an OM. That is why I added the comment; "serious collector" to my response. A serious collector already knows about the safety issues etc. and accepts the legal responsibility.

bottom line is the "R" tells the world that gun was "safety updated" , and the rest is legal mumble jumble, and even with the "R", the "deep pockets" will still be gone into , and sue them ALL and see who gets "away or off" ha ha...NO FREE legal advice online!!!!!! anyway ,in Ohio they have to prove "intent"...and so on, and so forth.
yes the "lower value" is a "buy ,sell", gimmick,ploy......hear it ALL the time......
you have , and keep the parts, its worth what current value may be, and worth only what someone is willing to pay........ 8) :roll: :wink:

I have no problem buying a gun that has been converted as long as either it has the original parts or I have a parts set for it and it doesn't effect the value of the gun to me IF I don't want to use it as a base gun for a custom project. If I DO want to have a custom project done on it, then I may pass depending on who I want to do the work. I am not talking about the liability issue from my stand point, just that some custom 'smiths won't do the work I want done.

This gun is a perfect example. It was Roy Fishpaws personal hunting revolver, an old model 41 mag and it had been converted. When I bought it I sent it and the original style parts plus a Clements bisley spurred hammer to a gunsmith in Montana who did the internal work and fit all the new parts. I intentionally did NOT send it to Tennessee because I knew Hamilton would not do the work. I did keep all the conversion parts just for provenance reasons.

Assuming he survived the shooing, Person F could probably find a lawyer willing to sue "somebody".

I think Person G oughta go pound sand.

:wink:

Robb Barnes said:

This gun is a perfect example. It was Roy Fishpaws personal hunting revolver, an old model 41 mag and it had been converted. When I bought it I sent it and the original style parts plus a Clements bisley spurred hammer to a gunsmith in Montana who did the internal work and fit all the new parts. I intentionally did NOT send it to Tennessee because I knew Hamilton would not do the work. I did keep all the conversion parts just for provenance reasons.

Click to expand...

Robb,

That's one beautiful Ruger! Congrats.

I presume its standard grip frame had to be modified for those grips which are very similar to the Bisley shape. Is that correct?

Yes sir, Roy rounded the heel of the grip frame.

Who's liable if the gun was never sent in?

I read somewhere that they recently stopped sending the old parts back.

GypsmJim said:

I read somewhere that they recently stopped sending the old parts back.

Click to expand...

It's a myth, that started when a few...ah...we'll say, less observant people never actually searched the box that the guns came back in.

The only part Ruger won't send back is one that is so worn, as to pose a safety concern.

Many pull out and keep the original action parts before sending the gun back to Ruger for conversion; no problem.