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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:22 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 9:06 pm
Posts: 1171
Location: Montana
Here is a situation where the shooters life was saved because of the gun he had with him. My son, who hunts for living for an hunting magazine and is a bow hunter, shot a bear with his bow bow on Thursday. He stalked to within 15 yards of a bedded black bear. He couldn't shoot any sooner because of brush. Made a good quartering away shot shot on the bear. The bear got up, grunted and looked back at my son and charged.

My son immediately upon making the shot set his bow down and pulled out his Springfield XDS 45 acp. When the bear charged he made two shots. The first hit the front leg. The second at 8ft. he hit it between the eyes and the bear landed on his bow as my son jumped back a couple of feet. I do not feel the 45 is a good enough to be a good bear gun, but at 8 ft. my son put the bullet in the right spot and it did the job. I carry a S&W 629 for reasons already stated in previous threads. But any gun is better than nothing! The gun is not the best for accuracy but at 8 ft. he made the shot count. I have pics but can't post them because of this forum format.

He called me up and said it is the second time he has had to change his shorts because of a bear charging him.

John


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:26 am 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 14505
Location: Alaska, Idaho USA
My personal feelings are it depends on the bullet as much as anything. I'd check with Buffalo Bore ammo and see if they have any good penetration bullets for a 45 ACP, then run them through the gun to make sure they cycle. Nothing worse than a gun that won't cycle the loads in it. Also my personal preference is a revolver. There's a nice stainless Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt in the classifieds and they are available with some good bullets as well. For black bears even a good 44 Special with the Buffalo bore loads, would be handy. they have a 255 grain Hard Cast SWC Keith GC 1000 FPS, should handle the majority of black bears quite handily. Because it's Montana where grizzlies roam, you might even want to go heavier, to the 44 mag, or a hotter 45 Colt load.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:46 am 
Buckeye
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:01 am
Posts: 1982
Location: Alaska.....
I was really hesirant to read this post.. as I know what a can of worms it opens.....
But to relay a short story.. or two....
Many years ago a couple friends went to a game farm to shoot russian boar.... One friend. A gunsmith with a custom long slide .45 and handloads we built for the occasion failed to put down a not so large boar... it took follow up shots and a short tracking job...

I have another friend.. local here who carried his smith model 36 for personal defence. Now my friend is a hard core hunter and has hunted and shot more large game than (probably) any 20-30 of us here on the forum. He is very familiar with guns. On a recent hunt he decided to use his smith for a put down shot on a black bear what was near done... A shot to the head at very close range did not penetrate the skull at all..
The smith now resides in the safe and he carries a .40

Whle I'll probably always defer to BPJ in these matters, I believe that as far as handguns go.. I carry the biggest caliber, with the best bullets, that I can..... I don't like the weight of them, but it's worth it....
I'll stick with a short rifle unless I have no choice.....

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:54 am 
Hawkeye
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Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:28 am
Posts: 12668
Location: Monroe County, MS
Vasquez has the best bear gun. :mrgreen:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8qbfMXaego

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:11 am 
Hawkeye
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Vasquez was great! Her best line in the movie :)

Private Hudson: Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?

Private Vasquez: No. Have you?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVn2HSHW1aI

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:30 am 
Buckeye
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:01 am
Posts: 1982
Location: Alaska.....
Cholo wrote:
Vasquez was great! Her best line in the movie :)

Private Hudson: Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?

Private Vasquez: No. Have you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVn2HSHW1aI



Or as she put it... "lets rock!!"..... :D

however.. not to steal the thread... it was pointed out to me long ago, that the grizzly and black bear were almost extinct.. Not by magnums, but by muzzle loaders and black powder repeaters..... which it true...
But I bet the human fatalities were a lot higher as well......

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:46 am 
Blackhawk

Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:06 pm
Posts: 832
The only bear gun to consider is one that YOU can use under pressure to put the bear down. A decent article: https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... r-country/

Awhile back a guide killed an attacking grizzly with a 9mm S&W semi auto pocket pistol. He hit it with 8 rounds and had one left! There was an article in American Hunter but I couldn't find it.

If you can't hit it (BG or critter) you can't hurt it!! Too much gun is as useful as too little! Either may scare off the attacker but increasingly they may not. A 9mm with a heavy +P like the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman will do the job-provided you can hit the target. If you can't hit the target reliably then you need something like an area weapon the thermobaric RPG-26 or maybe a Davy Crockett!? (Yes sarcasim.)

The only good weapon is the one that YOU have that functions and does the job!


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:53 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 14505
Location: Alaska, Idaho USA
The guide was Phil Shoemaker (master guide). He also didn't recommend people doing that. He used an S&W 3953 and Buffalo Bore 147 grain hard cast. Phil has been in on the killing of a ton of Brown bears, and the skinning of same. He is intimately familiar with the body parts of bears and precisely where to put the rounds. The incident took place within 6-8 feet of the bear, how many here want to get that close??? He shot "it six times before it turned to run off, and my seventh shot was into its pelvis area as it ran. When it dropped within 6 feet of the last shot,"
Phil typically carried an S&W 629 Mountain gun for the last 25 years.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:17 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:36 am
Posts: 2276
Location: Va.
I would say the Alaskan with some hot 250-300 gr. Colt .45 loads.
Load them up to 1000 FPS out the 2.5 barrel.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:18 pm 
Ruger Guru

Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 35242
Location: Lake Lure NC USA
I opened this thread thinking; "probably another what would you use" type.

To the OP,, I'm GLAD your son was able to place a good bow shot,, AND be able to follow it up with the necessary shots to keep from getting hurt.

And,, as many have pointed out all too often,, lots of variables with just as many different outcomes.

One thing not often mentioned is the fact that it takes a calm attitude,, and the ability to shoot proficiently UNDER STRESS,,, along with a firearm capable of doing the job,, and ammo to match. A skill all too often that is NOT mastered by the masses.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:36 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 9:06 pm
Posts: 1171
Location: Montana
contender wrote:
I opened this thread thinking; "probably another what would you use" type.

To the OP,, I'm GLAD your son was able to place a good bow shot,, AND be able to follow it up with the necessary shots to keep from getting hurt.

And,, as many have pointed out all too often,, lots of variables with just as many different outcomes.

One thing not often mentioned is the fact that it takes a calm attitude,, and the ability to shoot proficiently UNDER STRESS,,, along with a firearm capable of doing the job,, and ammo to match. A skill all too often that is NOT mastered by the masses.



Thank you for the kind words contender. A lot of variables were right for this to come out the way it did.
John


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:04 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2002 1:01 am
Posts: 2413
Location: Daegu, Korea
All I know is that the few times I set out LOOKING for a bear, I chose a good, dependable rifle in a suitable chambering, with suitable ammo. Glad things turned out well for the OP's son.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:37 pm 
Hawkeye

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 14100
Location: Woodbury, Tn
The .45 acp duplicates the ballistics of the .45 Colt, and the .44 spcl. Many bear dropped to those loadings. I wouldn’t feel undergunned with any of them.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:32 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 197
Location: WV
It depends on the type of bear and if your talking hunting or carrying as defense against a charging bear. I’ve killed a number of black bears with archery equipment. I have a friend who’s killed several black bears with a 22 WMR to the head. Although I wouldn’t want a bow and arrow or a 22WMR as defense against a charging brown bear! I’d probably want a 454 if I were in Alaskan big bear country.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:31 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 1:01 am
Posts: 2777
Location: soda springs, idaho
In this case you want a gun with fast follow up shot ability & he had it. That bear was very close & I'm quite certain very mad! He had the right gun for him & made it work. Phil Shoemaker was very, very lucky. He was off to the side & not in front of the bear he killed. That bear was zeroed in on his clients & he was able to place his shots precisely (very experienced) if that bear had been straight on it would have been a very different outcome I'm afraid.
As far as the best gun, you need penetration on bears but not extreme power where you can't control the recoil or get off a follow up shot. Bears are extremely fast, if you haven't been in close to a bear & seen how fast they can move you're in for a real surprise.
A few years ago I had a friend attacked & mauled by a smallish sow black bear & she almost killed him except for his dad making a once in a lifetime shot with his bow as she turned & charged him. Shoot what you can handle, heavy recoil isn't the answer but heavy bullets can save the day.

Dick


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