Grip frames...........

Can anybody post a photo comparing the XR-3RED grip frame to the current XR-3 as used on the current Vaquero and Flat Tops? Especially where they meet the cylinder frame?

Bob Wright

Bob,

I don't find an XR-3RED grip frame on the grip frame # list. And the XR-3 is the large or standard size steel grip frame, not the smaller size grip on the current Vaquero and Flat Tops.

But if you mean where the grip frame "ears" meet the back of the main frame, the difference is based on the vintage of the grip frame, not the size.

Grip Frame Ear Height Change to be aware of:

the ear height around the base of the hammer varies on all grip frame ears slightly due to hand fitting at the factory, but there was one specific big height increase. To simplify production in 1997, Ruger increased the height of the standard cylinder frame mating surfaces on both sides of the hammer 1/16" to match the Bisley model frame ears so any style grip frame could be assembled to any main frame. Therefore the ears on all the other standard plow handle grip frames after 1997 had to be made ~ 1/16" taller as well. So there's basically two sizes of the STANDARD plow handle grip frames: as short as .530" pre 1997 and as tall as .590" after 1997 (for example: Original Vaqueros above serial range 56-XXXXX). Measure from the very top edge of the grip panel to the top of the ears. That's why standard grip frame swaps are simplified if any acquired grip frame matches the vintage of your Ruger that you want to put it on. This also affects the standard hammer base fit to the grip frame ears on plow handle grip frames, except new hammers designed after 1997, like the New Vaquero and New model flat top Blackhawks.

The frame slopes down from the recoil shields on both sides of the hammer on pre 1997 guns with short rear frame mating surface which is a problem for Bisley grip frame. The way to resolve it and save a lot of work is to flatten the two frame surfaces where they meet the recoil shield to provide a smooth curve transition to the top of the Bisley grip frame w/o having a 'kink' where the GF mates to the frame. Then touch up with cold blue to blend in with the blued frame.

The current Vaquero and Flat Top grip frames do not have supports that fit into grooves in the back of the main frame.

Thanks for that, Jim.

I was aware of the situation but not exactly when it took place.

This can really get'cha when you attempt to use a recent grip frame on an older gun since the "ears" stick up above the main frame and can bite you when shooting "warm" loads and the gun rolls up in your hand. This is really apparent when trying to put a Bisley grip frame on an older gun.

Putting an older grip frame on a newer gun just leaves the "ears" a little short of matching the main frame . . . a visual consideration but usually not painful in my experience.

:roll:

I beg to differ with y'all, but the XR-3 grip frame was the earliest grip frame used on Blackhawks, and closely matched the Colt SAA grip. Around 1963 or so the grip frame was redesigned to move the grip slightly further back and provide more room behind the trigger guard. This is the XR-3RED that has been used since that time, and, up until recently, was the standard Blackhawk grip frame. It is found both in the Three Screw edition and the New Model styles. The introduction of the New Vaquero and Flat Tops re-introduced the XR-3 style, though older grip panels are not readily interchangeable.

The point I was interested in seeing was not the "ears" as y'all describe, but the projecting lugs that go into the back of the frame. From what I have read, the new smaller grip frames lack these lugs, and the frame has no recess for them.

Here is a photo of a Super Blackhawk with the grip frame removed. Note that there is a recess just below the threaded holes in the rear of the cylinder frame:



This Super Blackhawk grip frame shows what I am referring to, the two projecting lugs. These start out as "bosses" just under the flat area where the grips fit, and extend into the cylinder frame recesses.



Grip panels have to be relieved at the top corner to fit on these grip frames, while the newer grip panels, for the new XR-3 frames, don't require this.


As to the styles of grip frames, CaryC initiated this diagram some time back to identify the different styles, excluding of course, the Bisley:



Bob Wright

No argument about the "lugs" Bob.

Another recent curiosity is that the current crop of so-called XR3 grip panels wont properly fit the original XR3 grip frames because the locating pin isn't in the same location. It's close enough that you can do a little "reaming" and get 'em in there, though. Also, ya gotta relieve the upper ends to clear those "lugs".

:wink:

What I was really after in this post was to see the area that mates up to the cylinder frame. Thinking of maybe fitting an XR-3RED grip frame to a Flat Top. The way I see it, just grind off those lugs and cut that recess in the bottom of the trigger guard area.

Comments? Anybody done this yet?

Bob Wright

Do you mean an "old" XR3-RED onto a "new" gun?

Bob Wright said:

I beg to differ with y'all, but the XR-3 grip frame was the earliest grip frame used on Blackhawks, and closely matched the Colt SAA grip. Around 1963 or so the grip frame was redesigned to move the grip slightly further back and provide more room behind the trigger guard. This is the XR-3RED that has been used since that time, and, up until recently, was the standard Blackhawk grip frame.

Photo credit: Cary C

Bob Wright

Click to expand...

Bob,

Now I know which you were referring to: the old models which are actually #XR3-RED and #XR3. Notice how they are written in Cary's sketch. You just got the dash locations mixed up. Those old numbers don't apply to NM grip frames, they have new #s. For example the NM #XR-3 is the short steel frame for the .32 Vaqueritos, and the large steel frame for a Blackhawk, therefore is not the same as the OM XR3. For NMs I use XR3-RED 'size' and the XR3 'size' frames. The NM vaqueros and Flattops are XR3 'size'. Here's the NM steel grip frames section of my chart with the new #s so we're not talking apples and oranges:

STEEL GRIP FRAME IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS (Founder's Marks) CAST ON GRIP FRAMES (N/A to Bearcat)
Notes: Most all grip frames are 1/2" thick unless otherwise noted below.
For convenience, NM frames in the two most common sizes are often referred to by their old model #s as XR3 'SIZE' or XR3-RED 'SIZE' but they have their own Casting numbers.

NM BLUE: STEEL GFs:
Small steel (OM #XR3 size) 1/8" closer to trigger guard than XR3-RED size, (cut for indexing pawl system, no extensions into main frame & only 7/16" thick) = A (in a square), no other marking observed; w & w/o lock. New Vaq w/o lock has a 512 prefix serial #, locks discontinued in 2012
Large steel (OM #XR3-RED size): Early = A (in a square) XR-3 (that's XR dash 3), Late = A in circle XR-3 1 in circle
Large alloy (OM #XR3-RED size) w/o lock: Early = NXR3-RED, Late = XRN-3RED. With lock = XR & L, locks discontinued in 2012
Short steel 'Vaquerito' .32s (3/16" shorter in length than the XR3 and XR3-RED sizes) = A (in a square) XR-3. If ordered as a separate part = 302 A (in a square)


Yes the lugs (good name for them) is what I was referring to in my first post: "The current Vaquero and Flat Top grip frames do not have supports that fit into grooves in the back of the main frame."

Any grip frame that has the lugs will fit any main frame that has the slots for the lugs.

If the main frame doesn't have slots for the lugs, just cut the lugs off he grip frame. Done this several times. Those were designed for the original alloy grip frames used on all Rugers including the first steel SBH introduced 1959.The lugs continued until 2005 on the NV and N Flattop. They are not needed for steel grip frames.