Will Ruger build a .44 Mag capable GP-100 with 4 in. barrel?
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Enigma
Hunter
Doubtful, even with a 5-shot cylinder. There simply isn't enough metal in the barrel where it screws into the frame, IMHO. Such a gun would be prone to cracked forcing cones/barrels, and frames.
CraigC
Hawkeye
No one knows but Ruger but methinks it will have to have a larger barrel shank, like what S&W did with the 69.
rammerjammer
Blackhawk
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I'm no engineer, but I reason if S&W can figure out how to make a 5 shot 44 Mag like the Mod 69 then Ruger can too.
CraigC
Hawkeye
Probably because the Redhawk is significantly larger and heavier.SteelBlue said:
Personally, I get all the .44 I want out of the .44Spl GP. If I need more than the Skeeter load, I want a full sized .44Mag platform to do it in.
+1. Yep, yep, and yep. The .44Mag just gather dust around here as the .44 Special does pretty much everything that needs doing.
Now between the .44 Special SA flattop and the GP, I much prefer the SA ( I do have both). I got the Talo GP .44 Special for possible CC ... But the CA Bulldog is hard to beat for that purpose. On the otherhand the GP is built like a tank, and I feel a lot more comfortable shooting lots of rounds through it. So it goes.... Pros, cons...
RSIno1
Hunter
Simple - forged frame vs cast frame. I'm certain that Ruger's bean counters have determined they can't pull another gram off the Redhawk frame without having failures.rammerjammer said:
I expect there's some marketing numbers effecting what Ruger does. If S&W has 100% market share of the 5 shot compact 44mag business and it's a thousand guns a year what's the business model to make a new frame that will accommodate the larger forcing cone needed to survive Ruger's 44mag requirements? If Ruger gets 50% market share of 1000 guns they'll sell 500 guns a year. New products must recover NRE charges within ~3 years (The cost to design and take to manufacturing). If the wholesale price is $500 then that's $250,000/yr gross revenue before expenses.
Ruger probably took away some of S&W's M69 sales with the GP100 44SPL anyway and it cost them very little to take to market. Ruger would be doing a disservice to their shareholders by making a 5-shot 44mag frame, it wouldn't ever pay off within any reasonable time frame.
The market growth is in CC plastic 9mm pistols, we're lucky Ruger keeps making revolvers. Taurus/Rossi hasn't shipped an R92 lever gun in a few years but they've released 9mm/.380 pistols.
Ruger probably took away some of S&W's M69 sales with the GP100 44SPL anyway and it cost them very little to take to market. Ruger would be doing a disservice to their shareholders by making a 5-shot 44mag frame, it wouldn't ever pay off within any reasonable time frame.
The market growth is in CC plastic 9mm pistols, we're lucky Ruger keeps making revolvers. Taurus/Rossi hasn't shipped an R92 lever gun in a few years but they've released 9mm/.380 pistols.
As discussed several times on this and other forums it takes a new frame. The forcing cone needs to be larger to survive 44mag pressures. That requires a new frame to accommodate move the forcing cone upward to fit a larger outer diameter (beefier) forcing cone. 44SPL is already pushing the GP100 forcing cone according to the smart folks around here (of which I am not one of!).rammerjammer said:
I just checked and there are 115 M69's at Lipseys and Sports South waiting to be ordered. If there was a demand for 5 shot 44 Magnums, they would be gone. And yes I have a 2.75" M69 myself, but I have yet to shot a 44 Magnum in it, since I have thousands of 44 Special rounds available. Bob!! :wink:
That's where the reloading comes in handy. You can load your 44 Magnums to lower levels like my favorite 9-9.5 gr. of Unique under a 240 gr. bullet. I shoot a lot of theses in my Ruger SBH and other .44's.
Had my new M-69 out today running some rounds thru it.
Had my new M-69 out today running some rounds thru it.
CraigC
Hawkeye
Total nonsense. This crap about cast vs forged is so overblown, no doubt a result of that silly marketing war. As a matter of fact, Ruger builds a stronger gun. Stronger in materials and stronger in design. S&W's forged frames are not that tough and are left intentionally soft so they can be beat back into shape with a lead babbitt. The +100yr old sideplate design is a serious limitation as well. Bill Ruger set out to eliminate known weaknesses in the S&W design and that's exactly what he did. There is a reason why we have 50,000psi load data for the Redhawk and Super Redhawk but they are expressly forbidden in the N-frame. The ONLY advantage the 69 has over the .44Spl GP is that S&W enlarged the barrel shank for a thicker forcing cone.RSIno1 said:
Right you are 
. If your looking for a .44 magnum (or ROL .45 Colt or a .454 C) your probably hunting big dangerous game. And as you say, a Redhawk (or SBH/BH) would work just fine as weight isn't going to be a consideration in that scenario anyway. So why magnum-ize the smaller GP100 frame in the first place when there is already good solid 'solutions' at hand? I think we are in agreement! Leave the the peanut shooting GP100 for self defense and small/medium game, and the .44 Special carry the middle ground. Sounds like a plan to me! Probably why I have several guns shooting different calibers from .22 to .45. All depends on what your doing and where you are going... and then there is personal preference which throws logic out the window anyway .
. If your looking for a .44 magnum (or ROL .45 Colt or a .454 C) your probably hunting big dangerous game. And as you say, a Redhawk (or SBH/BH) would work just fine as weight isn't going to be a consideration in that scenario anyway. So why magnum-ize the smaller GP100 frame in the first place when there is already good solid 'solutions' at hand? I think we are in agreement! Leave the the peanut shooting GP100 for self defense and small/medium game, and the .44 Special carry the middle ground. Sounds like a plan to me! Probably why I have several guns shooting different calibers from .22 to .45. All depends on what your doing and where you are going... and then there is personal preference which throws logic out the window anyway .Well my S&W M69 version seems to shoot well from 15 yds.....the center 5 shot cluster.
I have since honed out the chamber throats to .4315 from the stock .429 which was a bit tight for my various bullets. All my other .44's including my SBH were .4315- 432.
Should help with the coated cast bullets.
I have since honed out the chamber throats to .4315 from the stock .429 which was a bit tight for my various bullets. All my other .44's including my SBH were .4315- 432.
Should help with the coated cast bullets.
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