Ruger 30 Carbine sticky extraction question?

How many of you who shoot 30 carbine in your Ruger Blackhawk have experienced sticky extraction?

Have any of you who did have sticky extraction have the throats corrected and noted a difference?

I posted these questions elsewhere and pretty much they went largely unnoticed so I thought I would ask you guys about your experiences with sticky extraction in a 30 Carbine Blackhawk. I can't be of any help here, because while I have owned a few, they shot fine and I never had any cases stick.

I checked with Harton, and we agree, where a bullet is .308" diameter, and the throat is .305" or so, upon firing the bullet is being swaged down so it can exit the cylinder which has to increase dwell time which leads to an increase in chamber pressure, as that pressure has to go somewhere.

Rough chambers are another suspect. Of course there is always the possibility of ammunition that is out of spec. Does anyone have any thoughts?

While I am at it, I am looking for a .30 Carbine Blackhawk cylinder. Let me know if you have one to spare.

Last, I am considering running the 32 640 Miha designs again in 100, 115, and 135 grain HP weights but this time sized for the 32's AND for the 30 Carbine (.309"-310"), so, a show of interest here would help me know if there would be enough takers. I dont think this has been done before and we already know the designs are excellent performers. Why leave the 30 Carbine guys out?

I for one am anxious to hear the results!

I'm guessing my cylinder should hit your door tomorrow, I've got the tracking number in my truck and will check later.

Sticky extraction begs the question---what kind of ammo? Possibly over pressure?
gramps

Some factory ammo was tight to punch out in the 30 C BH I had . I have had several and some had normal chamber mouths and some were.307 or slightly less. Fun gun to shoot, very accurate and VERY LOUD !

I have posted on this subject before, but I don't mind telling a story again. My F-I-L had a NM Blackhawk chambered in 30Carb and when he passed it went to my B-I-L and he passed over six years ago, and lo and behold it ends up with my eldest son. Both the fil and the bil were hand loaders and had some ammo loaded up for this gun. My son tried to shoot it and it was not only displaying poor accuracy it also stuck cases in the chambers so tight the ejector rod was useless at removing them. He brought it to me and I tried to work up my own load for it but I couldn't get it to shoot or eject properly. I put it in the safe and forgot about it for months on end but finally drug it out to see what could be done. After some measuring with .309" diameter cast bullets I found the throats were grossly under sized. I used John Taffin's homemade throat opening procedure, which is to use a rod with rolled emery cloth around one end and go to work on the throats using your bullet to measure with. Taffin used a wooden dowel but I used a 1/4" diameter brass rod that I put a slit in one end with my Dremel. I nearly put blisters on my fingers opening one throat and decided this wasn't working for me so I chucked the rod in a hand drill which made quick work of them. The key is getting the throat open enough that a correctly sized bullet will push through the throat but not fall through. When I test fired it after my home remedy it shot accurately and some of the cases fell out and others were removed with a very gently nudge. The way this revolver came from the factory I am surprised it didn't blow up in someone's hand but I guess that is a testament to the strength of a Ruger.

Blessings, Dennis

Thanks Dennis. That's evidence we are on the right track.

Anyone else?

I have an old model 30 Carbine...throats are all .308 so no issues there but with factory ammo it was sticky so a quick polish on the chambers fixed that for the most part. I only shoot handloads, after the initial loaded ammo to get brass, and they are less than maximum so no sticking issues there. I can certainly see where tight throats would create problems. Even with somewhat reduced loads noise is still severe. I would buy a mold for this if anybody has any suggestions.

I have also had the extraction issues with some but not all ammo. Mostly the Russian stuff, TulAmmo I believe it is, with steel cases. I don't have the means to measure the throats and have only factory loaded ammo but I did take a rod chucked up in a drill and some polishing compound to smooth out both the chambers and the throats. I was mostly concerned that I would damage the step on the chamber that the case head spaces but testing showed the problem was partially relieved and cases head spaced properly. I still have the steel cases stick but can usually get them out with the ejector rod and a sharp rap instead of removing the cylinder and using a dowel rod and small hammer (this looks bad to do at the range with a bench full of other shooters). The military ammo was fine, and the other brands of commercial ammo was ok with only minor issues. I haven't had time to follow up any more but I guess my next step is to send the cylinder off for proper reaming. I wouldn't shoot the Russian stuff but I bought a case of it several year back. This is on an Old Model 30 carbine is that makes a difference.

Chief 101 said:

I have an old model 30 Carbine...throats are all .308 so no issues there but with factory ammo it was sticky so a quick polish on the chambers fixed that for the most part. I only shoot handloads, after the initial loaded ammo to get brass, and they are less than maximum so no sticking issues there. I can certainly see where tight throats would create problems. Even with somewhat reduced loads noise is still severe. I would buy a mold for this if anybody has any suggestions.

Click to expand...

Chief, if I get enough interest, I'll run a 100, 115, and a 135 for the 30 cals.

jimbo1096 said:

I have also had the extraction issues with some but not all ammo. Mostly the Russian stuff, TulAmmo I believe it is, with steel cases. I don't have the means to measure the throats and have only factory loaded ammo but I did take a rod chucked up in a drill and some polishing compound to smooth out both the chambers and the throats. I was mostly concerned that I would damage the step on the chamber that the case head spaces but testing showed the problem was partially relieved and cases head spaced properly. I still have the steel cases stick but can usually get them out with the ejector rod and a sharp rap instead of removing the cylinder and using a dowel rod and small hammer (this looks bad to do at the range with a bench full of other shooters). The military ammo was fine, and the other brands of commercial ammo was ok with only minor issues. I haven't had time to follow up any more but I guess my next step is to send the cylinder off for proper reaming. I wouldn't shoot the Russian stuff but I bought a case of it several year back. This is on an Old Model 30 carbine is that makes a difference.

Click to expand...

Jimbo, I will be happy to measure your throats to .0005" for the price of return postage. If they need correction that normally can be accomplished for no more than 55 US depending. See this thread: http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/19614/addressing-undersized-throats

2 dogs said:

Chief 101 said:

I have an old model 30 Carbine...throats are all .308 so no issues there but with factory ammo it was sticky so a quick polish on the chambers fixed that for the most part. I only shoot handloads, after the initial loaded ammo to get brass, and they are less than maximum so no sticking issues there. I can certainly see where tight throats would create problems. Even with somewhat reduced loads noise is still severe. I would buy a mold for this if anybody has any suggestions.

Click to expand...

Chief, if I get enough interest, I'll run a 100, 115, and a 135 for the 30 cals.

Click to expand...

That would be great, heavier bullets might be interesting in the 30 C revolver. Might be able to get 357 mag velocities...

Chief 101 said:

2 dogs said:

Chief 101 said:

I have an old model 30 Carbine...throats are all .308 so no issues there but with factory ammo it was sticky so a quick polish on the chambers fixed that for the most part. I only shoot handloads, after the initial loaded ammo to get brass, and they are less than maximum so no sticking issues there. I can certainly see where tight throats would create problems. Even with somewhat reduced loads noise is still severe. I would buy a mold for this if anybody has any suggestions.

Click to expand...

Chief, if I get enough interest, I'll run a 100, 115, and a 135 for the 30 cals.

Click to expand...

That would be great, heavier bullets might be interesting in the 30 C revolver. Might be able to get 357 mag velocities...

Click to expand...

The 135 grain 640 nose GCGP has a .400 nose. I don't have one, but I think a .30 Carbine Blackhawk has enough cylinder for that one to fit and maybe a little more. My Custom Harton 32-20 exits that bullet at a blistering 1500+ fps and absolutely turns big Texas Jackrabbits into mush. If that doesn't grab your attention I don't know what it's gonna take!

That grabs my attention!

2 dogs called me earlier today after inspecting my cylinder. We're on the way towards a solution. Whats more ..... looks like at least part of the problem may of been caused by ME. (Go figure! That didn't surprise me a bit. :lol: )

Nice man to deal with!

I'll report back once we're done.

2dogs,
That link comes up as: "Small 45 Colt conversion"

Ok, I measured Hittman's 30 Carbine cylinder that was giving him sticky extraction and the throats measured .3095" plus!

His jacketed bullets measured .3075" plus.

So we know his throats are not the issue. We are looking at the ammunition and the chambers themselves. The chambers do have some machine marks and a couple of rust spots. Nothing we can't take care of easily.

So, once again, if you area new reloader, every revolver comes with a case gauge. It is your cylinder. You need to pull your cylinder and be sure your reloads fit properly before you load a buckful of ammo that wont work. This is very important with revolvers that have tight tolerances.

Thanks guys.

_________________

jimbo1096 said:

2dogs,
That link comes up as: "Small 45 Colt conversion"

Click to expand...

Sorry, Jim, I think I fixed it. Bottom line, let me know if you need help. http://singleactions.proboards.com/thread/19614/addressing-undersized-throats

Chief, if I get enough interest, I'll run a 100, 115, and a 135 for the 30 cals.[/quote]
That would be great, heavier bullets might be interesting in the 30 C revolver. Might be able to get 357 mag velocities...[/quote]

The 135 grain 640 nose GCGP has a .400 nose. I don't have one, but I think a .30 Carbine Blackhawk has enough cylinder for that one to fit and maybe a little more. My Custom Harton 32-20 exits that bullet at a blistering 1500+ fps and absolutely turns big Texas Jackrabbits into mush. If that doesn't grab your attention I don't know what it's gonna take![/quote]


Chief, we are finding the 135 grain version of the 314-640 when sized .309" will chamber in some 30 Carbine Ruger cylinders but not others. There is evidently some variation in case wall thickness in the brass as well as chamber dimensions. Better to get a few from one of us to try before you pass on the 115 in favor of the 135.

I can do that...I just bought some Starline 30 Carbine brass, hoping that is not going to be an issue. Mine is an OM made in 1970...I've taken it around the block a few times...