Fixing Sixguns that Lead

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2 dogs

Buckeye
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Now 4 pages into this thread, I have decided to change the heading and reword the introductory paragraph a little bit. As I have gone down this path with a number of sixgunners who have troublesome sixguns, I have had to make clear any number of times, to end up with a trouble free lead bullet shooting sixgun correcting the cylinder throats is only the first step. In some cases the throats cannot be corrected because they are already too big, so the size of the bullet you are shooting needs to be larger than standard. I have ended up guiding some guys through the step by step process that follows beyond correcting the throats in order to get their sixgun right. So in short, helping you with a sixgun that is leading is what I am here to do. Do not suffer in silence, send me a PM. I will help you even if you do not hire me to do any work.

For you 32 guys and others, I have a bit of news. I now have what I feel is the ideal reamer to correct undersize throats in the various 32s. Ruger Single Six 32s will almost always have .309"-310" throats. The bore is larger at .312". This isn't going to work. Your cast bullet will not have proper purchase as it travels down the bore. This is also the main
source of your leading. Even if you shoot jacketed, you are beating up your primer pockets because you are sizing down your .312" bullet to .309" as it exits the case (pressure has to go somewhere) and again, that 32 that shoots 1 1/2" at 25 yards may well be much more accurate if that jacketed bullet could "grab" the rifling like it should. Ruger Buckeye 32s are also as a rule too small for cast. These throats need to be corrected to shoot a .313"+ bullet or at least .001" over bore (.312") size. Sometimes the throats in a given cylinder will vary in size. To address this, I have a sets of pilots in 1/2 thou increments to keep the reamer dead center. I try to keep this job at no more than 55 per cylinder plus postage. I have not measured nearly enough Smiths or others to make generalized statements as to diameter however, if you are in doubt, I will measure both your cylinder throats and or your cast bullets with pin gauges and a micrometer at no charge except return postage. Now, every Ruger Single Seven I measured has shown .314" throats. What you need here is a cast bullet at least .3135" or so. Too small of a cast bullet is just as bad because all the lube will blow out of the lube groove when the bullets leaves the case. Dry bullets will lead. Let me know if you need my help.
Additionally, I am set up to correct 45 caliber throats and am in the process of setting up to do 40, 41, and 44 calibers as well. Let me know if you need help or if you are having a leading issue. fermin
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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Lake Lure NC USA
"For anyone who doesn't know Fermin Garza (2 Dogs), he is good as gold. You can trust him with your cylinders and money!"

Copied & pasted for truth.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
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Oct 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
South Texas
Wow, I didn't know I knew anybody in Korea!

Thanks Tryone. :)

Guys, let's not wait till hunting season to get these sixguns ironed out. If you are having leading issues getting the cylinder throats right is the first step to sixgun happiness. Don't be afraid to contact me, I've helped a lot of sixgunners cure their sixgun woes.
 

Booshog

Ol' Bushy in the Cottonwoods
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
555
Location
Northern New Mexico
I just got my .32-20 and my .32 H&R cylinders back from 2 dogs and they look and measure perfect!

Thanks for the great work and making it easy to have done.
 

Enigma

Hunter
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
2,511
Location
Houston metro area, TX
2 dogs said:
Wow, I didn't know I knew anybody in Korea!

Thanks Tryone. :)

Guys, let's not wait till hunting season to get these sixguns ironed out. If you are having leading issues getting the cylinder throats right is the first step to sixgun happiness. Don't be afraid to contact me, I've helped a lot of sixgunners cure their sixgun woes.

LOL! Yeah, you didn't realize just how famous you are! I 'know' you from various forums, most recently Lee Martin's Single Actions forum. Never had the opportunity to meet you in person.

And, I haven't always lived in Korea!
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
Location
South Texas
Enigma said:
2 dogs said:
Wow, I didn't know I knew anybody in Korea!

Thanks Tryone. :)

Guys, let's not wait till hunting season to get these sixguns ironed out. If you are having leading issues getting the cylinder throats right is the first step to sixgun happiness. Don't be afraid to contact me, I've helped a lot of sixgunners cure their sixgun woes.

LOL! Yeah, you didn't realize just how famous you are! I 'know' you from various forums, most recently Lee Martin's Single Actions forum. Never had the opportunity to meet you in person.



And, I haven't always lived in Korea!

Suddenly I'm seriously craving some genuine Korean food! How's the beer??
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
1,404
Location
South Texas
Booshog said:
I just got my .32-20 and my .32 H&R cylinders back from 2 dogs and they look and measure perfect!

Thanks for the great work and making it easy to have done.

Now see, when you can please the sixgun elite you gotta be doing OK!
 

Enigma

Hunter
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
2,511
Location
Houston metro area, TX
2 dogs said:
Enigma said:
2 dogs said:
Wow, I didn't know I knew anybody in Korea!

Thanks Tryone. :)

Guys, let's not wait till hunting season to get these sixguns ironed out. If you are having leading issues getting the cylinder throats right is the first step to sixgun happiness. Don't be afraid to contact me, I've helped a lot of sixgunners cure their sixgun woes.

LOL! Yeah, you didn't realize just how famous you are! I 'know' you from various forums, most recently Lee Martin's Single Actions forum. Never had the opportunity to meet you in person.



And, I haven't always lived in Korea!

Suddenly I'm seriously craving some genuine Korean food! How's the beer??

Better than it used to be! There is a much greater variety of domestic Korean beer than there was even a few years ago, plus imported beers are much more common than ever.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
South Texas
A potential client asked me about renting a reamer to save 19 bucks. Here is my response:

Hi, thanks for asking. On the throats there are several issues. First is to know what size the throats are in the first place. That they are too small is not enough. You have to get the diameter to .0005" otherwise your rented throat reamer could "float" about and you will end up with a throat that is off center. Any reamer that has been used "dry" or has been over worked might scar or gouge your cylinder. To properly measure the throats you need a set of MINUS pin gauges. You can't accurately measure the round surface of the throats with a dial caliper for 2 reasons. First, the dial caliper is only accurate to .001" and 2nd, the square surface of the dial caliper will not fit the radius of the throat. The throat reamer should also have a number of pilots in .0005" increments so that you can use the one that fits each throat in order to stay on center. So, if you don't have all those tools send it to me. The rental is 36US and I am at the most 55US and some shipping. So you are out 19 bucks and it is done correctly. Clements, Harton, and the others are all at 75 plus quite a wait.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
South Texas
A potential client asked me about a "bulk" rate if he sent me several cylinders.

I explained that in that case, what I would do is lay out the cylinders and pin gauge them all and mark each individual chamber with a sharpie so I would know in advance what pilot I would need for that chamber. That would eliminate having to set up the pilot multiple times for each cylinder.

So, lets say I get three 32 cylinders. On the first cylinder 3 chambers measure .309", on the 2nd 2 chambers measure .309" and on the 3rd cylinder 1 chamber measures .309". That is 6 total throats on 3 cylinders I can address with one pilot set up. So you can see, total time on tools is reduced, cost is reduced.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
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Messages
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One more thing, if you are going to send multiple cylinders, besides cleaning the cylinders, how about putting each individual cylinder in its own ziplock baggie with the last 4 digits of the serial number on a business card or something in the baggie so we don't get them mixed up....

fermin
 

BPGuy

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
224
Location
New Mexico
Good info. I have 4 .45 cylinders I'm considering having done (3 LC and
1 ACP). What exactly would the bulk rate be?
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
Oct 31, 2007
Messages
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Location
South Texas
I don't have a bulk rate. I need to do some measuring on your cylinders before I can do anything else. I can call you BEFORE I do any cutting but until I measure them there's just no way to tell.

Some cylinders are way out of spec. Some are not. My last 45 ACP cylinder was only .001" out. The last one I did was .005" out. That's quite a difference.

All I can say is where I can, I will try to cut cost. On the other hand, if your sixgun is leading, and your throats are undersized, you have to correct the throats before you can do anything else.
 

Scott r

Single-Sixer
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Jan 27, 2009
Messages
280
Location
kansas
Fermin is a perfectionist and beyond reproach. Send him your work with confidence.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
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Ok, so when you send me a PM, what I do is provide you with my

Name
Address
Phone number
email address

That way, I can be found if you have a question. I will do my best to answer any sixgun related issue questions you have. BUT, to help me help you, I suggest you not only program my information into your phone, but you also provide me with your complete contact information so I can have it in my phone. Most guys on here go by an internet handle, and as I am interacting with more and more of the fella's I find it easier to keep track of what I am doing if I have your name AND your handle in my phone.

I realize not everybody wants to read these threads word for word. Still, it would help me a lot if you would take a minute to clean your cylinder before you send it. If you are sending more than one cylinder, think about putting each one in an individual zip lock with a card that has say the 3 or 4 of the serial number so it can go back into the right sixgun.

You might also consider sending a few of the cast bullets you are shooting. It absolutely does you no good to shoot bullets that are too small through your correctly sized cylinder throat as often gas blow by will result in leading. There some other considerations as well. For example, I have seen where a really soft bullet, driven too hard, even if of correct diameter and in a sixgun with proper dimensions will still lead because the grease is being "squeezed" out of the grease groove at the forcing cone since the bullet is being both kicked in the butt and running into the rifling at the shoulder and cannot maintain it's integrity long enough for the lube to make it into the barrel.

As I said, there is a whole list of things that are soooo much easier for me to explain to you over the phone rather than trying to text it or type it all out.

Thanks for all of you taking time to PM me. I hope I am answering all your questions as we go along.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
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I was talking to a client today. We were discussing Rugers new .480 5 shot. He is seeing leading and was considering firelapping his barrel.

He is not a caster, he buys his bullets. His bullets are gas checked but they are .476" diameter according to the maker.

While I have not measured his particular cylinder, the .480 Rugers I have measured display .477" throats. This means you need a .477"+ diameter bullet.

So, I asked him to send me the cylinder so I could pin gauge the throats as well as some of his bullets so I could measure them with a micrometer and see exactly what diameter they were. I also suggested he go down to the fishing supply store and get some of those football shaped fishing weights with a hole in the middle. They are plumb soft. You clean your barrel, lightly lube it, and drive that slug down the barrel. If there is a tight spot or restriction at the threads, trust me on this, you WILL feel it.

So, again, get with me if you are having leading issues. There are only so many components. They must be addressed in a logical order. Sometimes what we discover is what we truly have is an alignment issue. That calls for a different remedy.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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You are so right 2 dogs.

I'll add just just one tiny piece of advice. Make sure the fishing sinkers you buy are pure lead. I've seen a lot of packages nowadays that say; "No lead" or "Lead free!" Pure lead is the soft stuff needed to slug a bore.
 

2 dogs

Buckeye
Joined
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Messages
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One of the guys on SA.COM said some weights were Zinc not lead!

These lead weights should be so soft you could scratch them easily with your finger nail.

Thanks again Tyrone.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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No problem Fermin. I know you wouldn't purposely mis-lead anyone. As a caster & all,, I watch out for real lead & all it's "imposters." :D :D
 
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