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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:48 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
Laserbait, you have a PM.

Rugerhounddog, many thanks, let me know if I can do other.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:42 pm 
Bearcat

Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:54 pm
Posts: 61
Location: Western New York
As all the previous posters have said you can trust 2 dogs. He is a gentleman with extensive knowledge, and personal integrity. We did a trade long ago with some TC contenders and a Les Baer. I will be sending my cylinder from my 45 colt Redhawk to him soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:59 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
Thanks Ira, I will get you squared away.

If you guys keep this up, I might even get my tooling paid for!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:46 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:05 pm
Posts: 160
2 dogs what do you finish the throats with after reaming? Do you send them out as-reamed? Do you polish them? Re-blue the throats? Curious.

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Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:39 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:39 am
Posts: 268
Fermin is a good guy, we had talked in the past about a GP100 problem and he was very helpful ! If I need a cylinder done he is who I will send it to.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:10 am 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
DougGuy wrote:
2 dogs what do you finish the throats with after reaming? Do you send them out as-reamed? Do you polish them? Re-blue the throats? Curious.


Hi again DougGuy. I first apologized to you, and then I answered your question over on the CB forum but it seems the mods deleted the thread before you got to see it. You see, I didn't realize you were over there until you asked me that question. At that time I looked at your link and realized you already had the guys on the CB forum well taken care of and the CB guys wouldn't be needing my help. Your work is stunning and the quality and care taken is quite obvious. Also, the tooling required is expensive and I know what it takes to recover these costs. Thus, I apologized for my intrusion and expressed my intention to back away. I further went to my original post and in all caps asked the CB members to ignore my post and referred them to your link which I also added to my original post. When I looked again, it all disappeared.

To answer your question, I can pretty much do anything a customer wants. For the most part, as reamed is working just fine. I own a considerable number of sixguns, many of which have "naked" throats, live off the Gulf Coast of Texas, where everything rusts, and do not have any issues. I am close to some of the very finest sixgunsmiths in the US who do not feel further refinement of the cylinder throats after reaming is necessary. However, I would be happy to refine the finish further if a client so desired. Some of my sixgunsmith connections blue all the time. So if someone does want their cylinder blued, it is a simple matter to send it off for a salt bath. As a matter of fact, I have a .30 Carbine Ruger cylinder going out this week. That said, your work is nothing short of beautiful and it would be a disservice to not recognize it as such and to point that out to our fellow forum members who might need your services.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:47 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
2 dogs wrote:
Ok, I measured Hittman's 30 Carbine cylinder that was giving him sticky extraction and the throats measured .3095" plus!

His jacketed bullets measured .3075" plus.

So we know his throats are not the issue. We are looking at the ammunition and the chambers themselves. The chambers do have some machine marks and a couple of rust spots. Nothing we can't take care of easily.

So, once again, if you area new reloader, every revolver comes with a case gauge. It is your cylinder. You need to pull your cylinder and be sure your reloads fit properly before you load a buckful of ammo that wont work. This is very important with revolvers that have tight tolerances.

Thanks guys.


Ok, I got Hittmans chambers polished and sent his cylinder out to be blued. It's one thing to leave the throats naked and something else entirely to leave chambers in the white. Our main problem is we can't be sure if the stickiness of the fired cases is due to the handloads (he has a man who handloads his ammo) or for the fact the chambers needed a bit of love. At any rate, the chambers look much smoother and will soon be blued. I spoke with The Hittman and mentioned his handloader guy should have the cylinder to be sure the cases were a slip fit when resized and gave him a few other pointers. So in a week or two we should have an update. Thanks Mike!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 8732
Location: Illinois
Thank you 2 dogs!

This is my first experience sending out a gun or gun part to someone. You made it a very smooth, logical, easy to understand process. Very reasonably priced too. I learned a great deal from you and I appreciate that.

Since I'm out of my realm of expertise I asked 2 dogs a simple question. "What would you do if this were your personal 30 Carbine?"

He gave me an answer and I went with that. Pretty simple.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:09 pm 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:00 am
Posts: 3110
Location: METRO DETROIT
Had 2Dogs take care of a .32 Single Six cylinder for me about six weeks ago. It's soo good now. When I'd slugged it the slugs miced (not with a dial caliper, but with both a Starret and a Swiss micrometer) .311. When 2Dogs told me it was done and the sizes the pin guages reflected I was really amazed the slugs were springing back almost .003. He was fast, and it shoots so much better, plus, I know how much he loves revolvers and helping him with his habit just feels right :)!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:08 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
M'BOGO wrote:
Had 2Dogs take care of a .32 Single Six cylinder for me about six weeks ago. It's soo good now. When I'd slugged it the slugs miced (not with a dial caliper, but with both a Starret and a Swiss micrometer) .311. When 2Dogs told me it was done and the sizes the pin guages reflected I was really amazed the slugs were springing back almost .003. He was fast, and it shoots so much better, plus, I know how much he loves revolvers and helping him with his habit just feels right :)!


Call on me anytime. I kick a real kick out getting a guy to where he is plumb accurate like Davy Crockett!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:33 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 103
Location: Indiana
Would a single sided lapping machine work for throats


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:01 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
I got in another 30 Carbine cylinder today with reports of sticky extraction. Measuring the cylinder throats again showed these were not undersize. In fact 4 were just over .309" and 2 were just under .309". I also discovered that the 2 that were just under .309" were hour glass shaped. No, I do not have Superman X Ray vision, but when a .309" minus pin will start in the rear and in the front of the cylinder throat and in both cases stop in the middle, there is a high spot in there. This tells me someone has tried to open these throats but it was not done correctly.

I also looked at the chambers to see if I could see any machine marks. The chambers themselves looked to have been polished a bit, but left rough. I would say a 320 grit finish. But dont hold me to that. My Superman X Ray vision only goes so far. So, I called up my client and asked him to take some of his fired cases over to one of his machine shop buddies to measure them.

Keep in mind that your 30 Carbine cases are tapered and you should measure them with a micrometer starting at the web and working your way to the case mouth going round and round. What are looking to see is if at any point your fired case shows signs of being "bulged" or out of round. This would tell you somebody at some point got in there and polished that/those chambers too much. This would definitely cause sticky extraction...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:34 pm 
Moderator
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 1999 1:01 am
Posts: 4105
Those superman eyes will get trained to spot all the flaws. :wink:

I did them for 11 years and I got to where I would take them out of the box and just looking at them I could tell if they were undersized or not. (and be right 9 out of 10 times)

Usually it was followed by cursing... "These #@^$ing things don't need to be done!" :roll: :lol:
I'd measure them and be right. Repack it and ship it back, another waste of my time. :cry:

:D


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:45 pm 
Buckeye

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 1624
Location: South Texas
cas wrote:
Those superman eyes will get trained to spot all the flaws. :wink:

I did them for 11 years and I got to where I would take them out of the box and just looking at them I could tell if they were undersized or not. (and be right 9 out of 10 times)

Usually it was followed by cursing... "These #@^$ing things don't need to be done!" :roll: :lol:
I'd measure them and be right. Repack it and ship it back, another waste of my time. :cry:

:D


11 years is a long time and I might end up in that exact same place, but for now, I get a kick out of helping a sixgunner out. I'm pretty sure you didn't end up an millionaire and neither will I but like I said, that ain't what it's about.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:42 pm 
Single-Sixer

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:05 pm
Posts: 160
Fermin I heard your name way back when I can't remember but the reference was good, I do remember that much. Maybe one of the trade rags I can't recall.

Anything you get into with cylinders or barrel throats that you need help with or services outside your tooling I will be glad to help if you need it. You are right stuff is expensive. I started with piloted reamers and abrasive cloth on a machined slotted aluminum dowel to clean them up, then graduated to using ACRO laps for honing and polishing after reaming, finally I forked over some serious change for a Sunnen LBA-666 hone, and even more serious change to outfit it with all the pistol caliber mandrels and abrasive stones. The Sunnen has an advantage in that it will keep the throat round where other means of cleaning up tool marks left by the reamer leave it to chance whether it will stay on center or stay round.

Once I acquired the Sunnen hone, I started buying undersize reamers so they would leave me enough meat to clean throats up without going over advertised diameters, this works great. Previously I had difficulty getting reamers that would cut large enough, I would end up finishing the cylinder and it wasn't big enough in the OD to pass muster. Shooters want throats .0005" over boolit diameter, not .001" over and staying in this perfect window is difficult at best.

For bluing I mix the Oxpho cream and Oxpho liquid 50/50, I clean the cylinders in hot soapy water and heat them til I can't hold them in my bare hand, then swab the bluing in with a Q tip, finally another hot soapy water wash, blow dry and oil down, they come out quite nice. It doesn't seem to affect the factory bluing unless it is old and really thin, then I can't allow it to get on the old bluing as it will color it. Haven't had to send one out yet for hot bluing.

Ruger SA cylinders are a study in boneheadedness at best. They come in on a rail car, long billets 2.25" in diameter made of a special steel that is tough, granular, does NOT like to machine well, it is hard, and VERY inconsistent. It tears, it pulls out and leaves horrible scratches behind, I don't care how sharp or how new the reamer is, whether it is HSS or carbide, or who's name is on it, or what kind of oil or tap magic you use, you will get one 45 cylinder that cuts so rough and so hard the reamer will audibly SQUAWK every time you turn the handle, it will leave the nastiest tool marks, and then the next 45 cylinder you get, cuts like butter with the same reamer. No rhyme or reason to it, you will not know how a cylinder will go until you chuck it up in the vise and start cutting. No way to predict how it will cut or how it will finish. This is Ruger and that is what comes with the territory. Their stainless isn't any different, it's just a tad softer and just as inconsistent and unpredictable as the blued cylinders.

Ruger used to use a Hitachi machine with 3 cutters on it for throating cylinders, they would gang ream 3 throats, index over one hole and plunge the other 3. Each cutter cut a pair of throats so you had 3 pairs of throats. When they replaced the reamers they only replaced them when they wore too bad to use anymore and if the others next to it still had life in them, they would only replace one and let the others cut more. Now you have say a Super Blackhawk cylinder cut with a new .432" reamer, and a worn .431" and a further worn .429" so you got throats that are all over the map in size. I have used 4 different pilots on the same cylinder before, and it is most common to use 2 different pilots so they are as snug as possible.

When I get a throat that is oval or belled or somebody's been in there before, I often hit it with the Sunnen hone just to take a shine to it, see where the hone shines and where it leaves bluing, to see how bad out of rounds it is, and I get it smooth enough that a pilot will fit in there good and snug, only then do I take the reamer to it. Getting that pilot fitted in there good is the WHOLE TRICK to reaming cylinder throats and staying on center with them.

I also check chamber reaming sometimes too. I had to buy some finishing reamers to take care of the occasional rough or underbored chamber.

I loved Texas, spent all of the 1970s along the Texas Gulf Coast fitting and welding in shipyards, truck shops, refineries and oilpatch fab shops, built drilling rigs in Houston, went offshore and installed them in the Gulf, those were good days.. Picked up a cute little Senorita in a bar in Corpus one nite, gave her a ride home just being a nice guy, she lived in a really nice place on Ocean Drive, heh Freddie Fender's daughter go figure.. You need help with something, give me a holler..

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Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/


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