Search for accurate load for Super Blackhawk Hunter 44 Mag

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sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
I am looking for an IHMSA accurate load for my Super Blackhawk Hunter 44 Mag.

SBH_WildBoar_800.jpg


The accuracy of this gun was not very promising when I bought it many years ago. Jacketed bullets fell through cylinder throats which led me to suspect throats to be too large.

Now I finally purchased a set of pin gauges and I found out that a 0.432" gauge goes in the throats and a 0.433" does not, meaning the throat diameter is somewhere between 0.432" and 0.433". To verify the results I measured two Smith & Wesson 629s and got 0.429"-0.430" on both. Which confirms the Ruger has oversized throats. The motivation for this may be to lower peak pressures when shooting +P 300 gr hunting ammo.

This revelation gave me the idea to try larger diameter cast bullets, which I do not have so far, or driving jacketed 0.4295" bullets so hard that they hopefully obturate to fill the throat.

In the past couple of weeks I have experimented with Sierra 250 FPJ 0.4295" bullets in front of Vihtavuori N-110, Winchester Large Pistol primers. After two rounds of tests a charge of 19.4 grains seems promising. The next step is to make a larger batch of that load and start shooting in earnest, hopefully lessening the effect of shooter error.

These are the 25 meter (27ish yards) results today, in sub freezing 17 F temperatures.

3.5" (after this group I adjusted the sights to the right)
20161204_250FPJ_N110_190_zpshmp2t35z.jpg


2.6"
20161204_250FPJ_N110_192_zpsd2ottqrr.jpg


2.3"
20161204_250FPJ_N110_194_zpsrvn5ew97.jpg


3.5" (maybe inconsistent hold and shooter fatigue caused the vertical spread?)
20161204_250FPJ_N110_196_zps4cnoyuae.jpg


To be reasonably effective in IHMSA the gun should shoot 1"-1.5" groups at 25 yards. So the search and practice continues.

If someone sees a negative throat cutter that adds material instead of removing, please let me know. I would like to add a couple of thousandths of metal to make the throats smaller.
 

daveg.inkc

Hunter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Messages
2,503
Location
Kansas City, MO
Here's my accurate .44 Mag loads. 23 grs IMR 4227. 10 grs Unique. 19-20 grs 2400. All with a 240 gr bullet. Not sure what to think about .432 throats.
 

sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
In case someone is interested, the velocities for those loads from the 7.5" barrel were

Sierra 250 gr FPJ N110
19.0 gr 1367 fps
19.2 gr 1391 fps
19.4 gr 1423 fps
19.6 gr 1425 fps

when shot in cool 42 F weather. Pretty fast, probably nearing maximums, but no signs of overpressure, i.e. cases extract easily, primer looks normal, Ken Waters style case head expansion measurement shows only 0.0005" difference between those loads. Being lazy I did not measure factory ammo for case head expansion reference.
 

sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
No chance, I am in Europe. I know Ruger would take care of the gun but in the current politically correct times there is no way for a private person to ship a gun across the Atlantic. Believe me, I have tried.

So my only chance is to develop loads that compensate for the oversize throats.

I have a Super Redhawk 454 Casull with 0.454" throats when bullets are usually 0.451"-0.452". To my understanding Ruger does this on purpose to limit peak pressures. I have not gotten even half decent groups from this Super Redhawk, not one group worth measuring, not with handloads nor with factory ammo. I will start experimenting with 0.454" sized cast bullets one of these days. The crown has been redone by a gunsmith many years ago, it had a big nick which I thought caused the wild inaccuracy but recrowning did not solve the problem.

Not to get discouraged I have bought a Super Redhawk in 44 Magnum, it is waiting for my permit, too. I am optimistically expecting that gun to have properly sized throats so I could use it for Silhouettes.

As to IHMSA, I have one Freedom Arms and two more in the gun store waiting for me to get permits for them. I shoot a 500 Wyoming Express very accurately so flinching is not the problem. It would just be nice to get this Ruger and the 454 Super Redhawk to shoot reasonably well, too. I envy Taffin and Sweeney whose Rugers are always tack drivers in their books.
 
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
9,818
Location
Woodbury, Tn
contender said:
I'd order a custom bullet mold, cast a slug to match my bore & go from there.
Would you cast a slug to the Cylinder or the bore? This is the first I have heard of a Ruger .44 mag being oversized. Mihec is in Europe, I believe. I agree with a custom bullet mold.
gramps
 

Mus408

Hunter
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
2,337
Location
Va.
I had one of those SBH Hunters and it shot well for me. Then I sold it for the .454/.45 Alaskan.
Nice looking gun that Hunter was.
On my Alaskan I get some leading at the bore entry just past the forcing cone due to what they tell me is the .454 throats when shooting my hardcast .452 bullets.
However it shoots well for what I do with it.
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
25,385
Location
Lake Lure NC USA
Get the mold for the bore, and if the chambers are too small, you can have them reamed to the proper dimensions. Yes, Mihec is in Europe. EXCELLENT molds.
 

41-44-45-48

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
103
.432 - .433 throats should not be a problem. It's actually just about perfect for cast bullets as the bores on these things generally run about .4305-.431.

My most accurate loads in Ruger 44s are generally a tangential ogive (not Keith style!!!) 300-320 gr cast bullet, sized at .4315, loaded over a max charge of H110 powder. I have a scoped Redhawk that will hold 2" groups at 50 meters pretty consistently with these loads.
 

sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
It seems it is time to set up the bullet casting equipment which I have not used for 25 years now. Now to find raw material for bullet casting. Wheel weights have been replaced by something non-lead a long time ago, there are no print shops using linotype anymore. I regret not collecting all the linotype I could find when it was still used in printing - it seemed as a never ending supply in those days.

When Midway still operated in our country, they sold various lead ingots but the prices were so high that for the same price per pound you could buy bullets. Midway is now gone from here.

We have a local cast bullet manufacturer and I heard a rumor they are not producing much anymore because of too high raw material prices.

This will be a challenge but I believe I will find a way.

Thanks for the suggestions and shared thoughts.
 

lolbell

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 29, 2012
Messages
362
I would think the throats are fine. My SBH Hunter has throats that measure .432 which is near perfect to shoot a .431 cast bullet. Before I went to lead only I had a load that would do 5" at 100 yards with a Hornady 240 XTP and IMR4227.
The charge was over max a little in todays manuals but a little below max in the the older manual it came out of. This group was shot using a 2-7 power scope and off of sand bags of course.
 

tuner

Bearcat
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
38
Location
Savannah, Ga.
I have a .44 Hunter and the cylinder throats also will pass a .432 plug and stop a .433 plug. I have never shot jacketed bullets so can not comment on accuracy with them; however, with cast bullets I am getting 1.75 inch five shot groups at 50 yards with regularity and almost always under 2 inches. I have had these results with an RCBS 250 Gr. Kieth plain base and a Lyman 275 Grain LFN gas checked bullet (mold discontinued by Lyman). I custom made a sizing die that sizes my bullets to .4325, these bullets will not push through the cylinder. My alloy is 40 pounds of wheel weights with one pound of 95/5 tin antimony added. Lube is NRA Alox/Bees wax formula. Powder is H110/296 22.5 gr. with the 250 gr bullet and 21.5 and 22 gr with the 275 gr. bullet. Primers used are CCI Mag. Pistol. I get zero leading with these loads and excellent accuracy. My sighting equipment is a Match Dot II which has performed flawlessly as has my Blackhawk Hunter.

My guess is that if you fit a cast bullet to your throat so they take a bit of pressure to push the bullet through you will get excellent accuracy with your Hunter. If it shows signs of leading I would check the barrel for a constriction "Choking" where the barrel meets the frame. There are several cast bullet companies here (US) that have a good selection of cast bullets and will custom size them to meet your needs, you might want to give that a try.

Best of luck in your journey.
 

sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
Encouraging information. I will investigate the jacketed bullet route for now but try to set up my bullet casting operation sometime next year. It has been probably more than 25 years since I cast bullets the last time, it will be a pleasure to get back to that.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
7,711
Location
Memphis, TN USA
As to potent cast bullet loads, for many years I used the 245 gr. Lyman #429421 Keith SWC loaded with DuPont (then) IMR-4227. Velocity was clocked at just at 1400 f.p.s. and accuracy was superb.

I once dropped a groundhog with this combination, distance was 110 yards.

This out of a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk.

Bob Wright
 

David Bradshaw

Blackhawk
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
933
sasu said:
I am looking for an IHMSA accurate load for my Super Blackhawk Hunter 44 Mag.

SBH_WildBoar_800.jpg


The accuracy of this gun was not very promising when I bought it many years ago. Jacketed bullets fell through cylinder throats which led me to suspect throats to be too large.

Now I finally purchased a set of pin gauges and I found out that a 0.432" gauge goes in the throats and a 0.433" does not...

***
sasu....
Perhaps it is time to slug the barrel. Too many Ruger revolvers suffer from over-tightened barrels. Said malady forms a compression ring in the bore where the barrel shoulder meets the frame. Slugging allows one to feel for loose and/or tight spots. A pure lead egg sinker is carefully driven through the clean, lightly lubed bore with a hardwood dowel or brass rod, muzzle-to-forcing cone. Next, the slug is indexed to the lands and pushed through by hand. Feel for any change in push; note those spots.

A compression ring, popularly called thread choke, ruins accuracy.

Carefully check the FORCING CONE for concentricity and smooth finish. An overly-deep forcing cone is not good for accuracy.

Let us look at the assertion that .432" excessive for accuracy in .44 Mag (or Special). A chamber exit of .432" fits a long established standard at Ruger and S&W. Top Ruger Super Blackhawks and M-29 S&W revolvers with .432" exits (a scope is a tremendous help for pure accuracy testing), have recorded 5-shot sandbag groups of 2-inch, @ 100 yards. Emphatically, these revolvers are factory stock with short, very smooth and concentric 11-degree forcing cones.

The .432" EXIT HOLES (chamber throats) on your SBH Hunter are normal. They are not excessive. For the the S410N 10-1/2" Super Blackhawk which, in 1980, won the International Revolver, Championship, exit holes measure from .4320 to .4322-inch. GROOVE DIAMETER for this Ruger "Hornpipe" measured .428 at the start. Broach-rifled grooves now measure .4292, .4293, and .4294-inch. The World Champion load consisted of Sierra 240 JHC seated over 21/Hercules 2400 in Winchester brass with CCI 350 mag primer. The revolver is capable of 5-inch groups @ 200 meters. (23 grains IMR 4227 or H4227 and 23 to 24 grains 296/H110 yield same accuracy. Vihtavuori 110 is close.)

The .44 Remington Magnum is a forgiving cartridge. Matches have been won with a spectrum of jacketed and cast bullets propelled by a spectrum of slow powders. Sierra 240 JHC (Jacketed Hollow Cavity), Sierra 220 and 250 FPJ (Full Profile Jacket) are tops. The old Hornady 240 JHP was match accurate, as are current Hornady's. The Nosler 300 JHP, which mimics fine hunting properties of the old Hornady JHPs, certainly is match accurate. The Hornady 265 Flat Point seated over 23.2/H110 with CCI 350 was a favorite ram load in the Super Blackhawk. Would not subject an M-29 to this load, especially for sustained fire.
David Bradshaw
 

sasu

Single-Sixer
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
145
David, thank you for the detailed information. I will slug the barrel and check the forcing cone.

I have done experiments with Sierra 250 FPJ and N110, with some promise. I will continue testing.

Interesting that the 0.432" throats can be considered suitable. Live and learn.

I have two IHMSA books as my bedside reading so your name is quite familiar.
 

Pal Val

Buckeye
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
1,554
Location
S.E. PA, USA
I've been shooting a SBH hunter .44mag for over ten years. It took me no time to realize that this gun liked a hard cast bullet pushed fast. I have several pet loads for it, but my favorite is 22.5gr H110 pushing a 240gr hardcast lead bullet. I get a bit of leading in the constriction where the barrel is threaded in the frame, but it's OK, given the accuracy, and I don't shoot too many rounds in a session.
 
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