Blackhawk let down

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gunzo

Buckeye
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Like several of you, I've had problems with a few Rugers here & there, but not ever with a Blackhawk. I've owned about 50 of 'em & trust them completely. Until yesterday.
While dry firing a NMFT 357 I noticed a odd sound when the hammer fell. A inspection revealed a 2 piece transfer bar. I've heard of them breaking, but only in the last couple years or so. Not a common occurrence in the past. Wonder what's changed ?

Will call tomorrow, maybe Tues. as Mondays are usually a busy time. Hoping they will send me a bar instead of a shipper cause the last time they QC'd a gun for me, they scratched up my Match Champ pretty bad.
 

Rclark

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They should just send you a new TB. Easy to install... I had it happen to me a couple years ago now when doing some chrono tests.... Not a new gun either. In fact it was on my first .357 BH that I got as a late teen back in the 80s. So I too was 'surprised'. One way to 'help' is to make sure the gun doesn't have the TB 'pinch' problem. TB should just fit between the frame and the hammer. This is one reason I wish we still had the OM around.... One less part to break/malfunction....
 

Mus408

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Revolvers are supposed to be,or should be, 100% reliable in that area especially if you are carrying it for self defense.
Do the Ruger DA revolvers share the same problem of late?
Is the TB a machined billet piece or a cheaper cast piece?
 

charlesappel

Single-Sixer
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Mar 19, 2009
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Marietta, Georgia
Mus408 said:
Revolvers are supposed to be,or should be, 100% reliable in that area especially if you are carrying it for self defense.
Do the Ruger DA revolvers share the same problem of late?
I've owned four GP100s over the years and examined several others. None of them were afflicted with TB pinch.
OTOH: All the SP101s I have owned were so afflicted.
 

BlkHawk73

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Mus408 said:
Revolvers are supposed to be,or should be, 100% reliable in that area especially if you are carrying it for self defense.
Do the Ruger DA revolvers share the same problem of late?
Is the TB a machined billet piece or a cheaper cast piece?


Until humans themselves are infallible, so will all they produce. ;)

The broken transfer bar is just one of those things I'd think ppl would have an extra on hand. The tb's are cast, always have been. Don't see that changing as the process would be more costly and in volume, even more so. Of course if a machined one would be such a plus...there's your market to jump into. :)
 

gunzo

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Gee BH73, How many tb's have you broken?
I bought my first NMBH in 1974 & have had about 25 or 30 NM's since then. Never had any actual break downs, just a few bumps here & there that I always took care of myself. Until yesterday I didn't know I should have a spare tb on hand.

FWIW, I worked 20 years as an Industrial Maintenance Tech, & another 20 as a Tool & Die Maker, so I've seen my share of broken stuff. The tb breaking is not that big a deal. But, for its age there is a reason, besides normal usage that it broke. The part itself was flawed below an acceptable level of quality, or was not tuned or fitted correctly, causing undue stresses & premature failure.

The "pinch" is now something I'll look for & correct if need be. Ahh......just another day of working in Rugers QC Dept., just wish they'd send me a check.

Thanks for the info guys.
 
Joined
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Mus408 said:
Revolvers are supposed to be,or should be, 100% reliable in that area especially if you are carrying it for self defense.
Do the Ruger DA revolvers share the same problem of late?
Is the TB a machined billet piece or a cheaper cast piece?

Revolvers are extremely Reliable, trouble is they are man made and not
infallible. Mans is not perfect and neither is what man makes. JMO

A prudent man will test fire his equipment to make sure its functions perfectly.
That's the best you can do. I have faith in mine. ps
 

Mus408

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Being a Toolmaker also...I may take a look at the ones in my Rugers and see if a machined tool steel replacement can be made.
I haven't yet had a problem with the ones I have.
 
Joined
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Depends on the heat treat, material specs,etc...like anything else pound on steel long enough you can turn your plows into swords,,,,and vice versa
constant pounding of bare metal to bare metal can and will cause work hardening, and make things brittle......................stop and watch an old time blacksmith work their wonders with steel ,iron, and whatever.........been there ,done that, seen more than our share of "broken" transfer bars, and mooshed bolts, etc.........
besides , what and "how much" dry firing??????????? 8) :roll: :wink:


and YES< seen BRAND NEW ones break in the first session of either 'dry firing' or actually shooting the gun, and most others last "forever" ??? ( never say never, never say always) :?
 

Hondo44

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gunzo said:
The "pinch" is now something I'll look for & correct if need be. Ahh......just another day of working in Rugers QC Dept., just wish they'd send me a check.

Thanks for the info guys.

You've already been paid with each Ruger you purchased being a couple of hundred dollars less than they would've been if unbreakable and totally flawless (which they can't be).
 

gunzo

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Hondo, I mentioned my working career as an attempt to explain that I am fully aware that nothing is unbreakable, having seen, first hand, an astronomical number of failures of man made components. Flawless? I doubt that I would know flawless if it is even possible, & I saw it. So, I'm certainly not expecting it. I do agree that it could get expensive, & the consumer would feel the hit, a big hit.

Now, the comments that people make about better quality control raising the price of a product are statements that I cannot get on board with. Returns & repairs are costly. Problem solving within can sometimes be unbelievably simple, I've seen it in action. How much time does it take to see crooked front sites, missing parts, or a razor sharp burr still attached?

I believe that Ruger has an increased percentage of quality problems, not because of my dinky little transfer bar, but from things I hear, not just this forum, but forums across the board, at gun shops, on the shooting range, & things I see with the eyes of a 50 year maker & fixer of things. For a year or two now I've been wanting to voice my opinion on this but avoided doing so in someone else's thread. But this be my thread, so I'm glad it came up. No animosity here, just the way I feel about the matter.

I walked into the local gun shop a few weeks back & my buddy handed me a new Vaquero fresh from the distributor. He said, you'll appreciate this. It was a cute thing, a polished stainless birdshead with wonderfully contrasting dark grips, looked like a hi dollar custom. Then it hit me, & I said a bit above a whisper, WHAT THE .... ? Everybody there was waiting for it & they all broke out in laughter. It had one grip frame screw in it, the front one! While I don't know their assembly process I have to wonder how many hands that gun went through, & nobody noticed? Didn't notice, didn't care, or pushed so hard for quantity that no one had time to care? Wow!

Hope I'm wrong about the increased percentage of poor quality & maybe it is just the same number of complaints per thousand & those numbers have simply increased with the increased production numbers. If I'm right, I hope they fix it, the sleeping giant of decreased customer satisfaction can & will wake up.
 

PriseDeFer

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"You've already been paid with each Ruger you purchased being a couple of hundred dollars less..."

According to Ruger it is their manufacturing techniques (investment casting etc.) and production practices that allow them to sell for less. They never said anything about the Ruger QC Rangers. Do we get decoder rings?
 

gunzo

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woodperson said:
So is a S&W revolver a better choice for defense than a DA Ruger because they do not have the transfer bar?

I believe that either is a fine choice if they are manufactured & assembled correctly. And of course, tested & deemed trustworthy by the end user.
 

41-44-45-48

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Nov 4, 2015
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gunzo said:
I hope they fix it, the sleeping giant of decreased customer satisfaction can & will wake up.

The sleeping giant will wake up only when a competitor comes forth to offer a full range of mass produced single action revolvers of significantly better QC at the same Ruger price point. Since the nearest competitor at the moment is Colt (haha haha) and the cost of entry into such a limited market is quite high, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the giant to wake up anytime soon.

In the meantime we can all enjoy the blessing of an ever-widening array of very reasonably priced single actions from Ruger - even if they end up outsourcing QC to us here and there.
 

gwpercle

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Baton Rouge , Louisiana
Dry Firing, do it enough , especially without good snap caps and something's going to break.....I don't care what the "experts" say. You broke a Ruger Blackhawk just dry firing it ! Unbelievable !
Gary
 

Ethang

Blackhawk
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
759
Location
Michigan
I broke the transfer bar on my 90's era Vaquero. I too dry fired that pistol a lot. Stuff happens. Ruger fixed it and it came back better than it left me.
 

Hondo44

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41-44-45-48 said:
gunzo said:
I hope they fix it, the sleeping giant of decreased customer satisfaction can & will wake up.

The sleeping giant will wake up only when a competitor comes forth to offer a full range of mass produced single action revolvers of significantly better QC at the same Ruger price point. Since the nearest competitor at the moment is Colt (haha haha) and the cost of entry into such a limited market is quite high, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the giant to wake up anytime soon.

In the meantime we can all enjoy the blessing of an ever-widening array of very reasonably priced single actions from Ruger - even if they end up outsourcing QC to us here and there.

Well said!

People have been complaining about Ruger's single action quality since the very first in 1953, but not about the price. At first it was the tool marks in the cyl flutes and front surface of the cyl frames and has continued from there. But no sleeping giant has appeared in the ~ 60 years since and is not likely ever to at this point in the game.

Rugers are an unmatched value for the price which Ruger's incredible success has proved for years. There's top quality guns for extraordinary prices for those that want them, but they'll always just be niche companies that come and go or hover on the edge of Chapter 11, and that's the bottom line.

And when they do go, there's no QC problems because there's no more product period!
 

gunzo

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gwpercle said:
Dry Firing, do it enough , especially without good snap caps and something's going to break.....I don't care what the "experts" say. You broke a Ruger Blackhawk just dry firing it ! Unbelievable !
Gary

Please tell me how snap caps support the transfer bar. I am definitely not an "expert".

The transfer bar had a terrible "pinch", something a friend of mine had noticed & reminded of me this weekend. The hammer bending/stressing the bar with every fall instead of it floating as intended. An assembly/Quality Control problem within the company.

"Dry firing, do it enough"

The dryfire count on this unit? about 50, along with about 150 rounds of live fire. Absolutely no fanning or Hollywood BS here. I suppose the other 25 or so Blackhawks I have that are holding up is just plain luck?

If ya'll would read the entire thread you might notice that I said I didn't care about my dinky little tb, I can & will fix it, but by reporting it I probably found why it failed with help from people here. Seems I have 2 or 3 more to correct, all made in the last few years. Fifteen others from about 1975 till 2005 required no attention. Coincidence? The brunt of my post about QC, something on my mind for a few years, NOT because of a free part that is in transit as I speak. That is an example of Vg customer service. :D
 

gunzo

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Hondo44 said:
41-44-45-48 said:
gunzo said:
I hope they fix it, the sleeping giant of decreased customer satisfaction can & will wake up.

The sleeping giant will wake up only when a competitor comes forth to offer a full range of mass produced single action revolvers of significantly better QC at the same Ruger price point. Since the nearest competitor at the moment is Colt (haha haha) and the cost of entry into such a limited market is quite high, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the giant to wake up anytime soon.

In the meantime we can all enjoy the blessing of an ever-widening array of very reasonably priced single actions from Ruger - even if they end up outsourcing QC to us here and there.

Well said!

People have been complaining about Ruger's single action quality since the very first in 1953, but not about the price. At first it was the tool marks in the cyl flutes and front surface of the cyl frames and has continued from there. But no sleeping giant has appeared in the ~ 60 years since and is not likely ever to at this point in the game.

Rugers are an unmatched value for the price which Ruger's incredible success has proved for years. There's top quality guns for extraordinary prices for those that want them, but they'll always just be niche companies that come and go or hover on the edge of Chapter 11, and that's the bottom line.

And when they do go, there's no QC problems because there's no more product period!

You'll hear no complains from me about the Quality of a Ruger for the price, I have examples that go back to 1956 & love every line. I don't mean to say that I want them to increase their quality. That would raise the price. I would simply like them to maintain a level of Quality with the Quality Control that they once had.

Yep, when the are gone, there will be "no QC problems". But, is that a chicken or the egg thing? Could quality problems cause them to go? The profit margin can only stand so many returns, repairs, & demands on the workforce from one of many products before that one product is of no interest to the manufacturer.

Did 'ya ever think that the sleeping giant could be RUGER. They've pulled the plug on a product line before. How many can you name?

I really hope they do better for everyone's sake, But have to admit that I really don't like gambling every time I order one. It really seems like a crap shoot the last few years.
 
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