My Cusrom Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP and Etc.

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Hondo44

Hawkeye
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
8,041
Location
People's Republik of California
Chev. William said:
Hondo44,

3. "Have you considered the 327 Fed Mag? A little lengthening of the 32 H&R/ S&W family cyl chambers will work for it as well."

The .32 H&R cylinder chambers are about 1.4" in length over all, and After rework to fit re-cut replacement .22-Mag cylinders (re-cut to .32 Calibers), it will actually be shorter due to the need to set the barrel back slightly to get the forcing Cone to fit the re-cut cylinders. Both types of cylinder have about the SAME outside Chamber Length, with the .22 ones back close to the Recoil face with Rebated Rims and the .32 one having Rims exposed so the chamber is further 'forward' overall.

4. "Factory loaded .327 Mag cartridges are only ~.003" longer than the factory 32 H&R chambers/cyl. Originally I thought I'd have to run the factory loads thru my seating die and seat the bullets a couple of .001" deeper in the case, but didn't have to. Believe it or not they function perfectly by taking advantage of the barrel/cylinder gap spacing. I know it might be counterintuitive but as they say, truth can be stranger than fiction."

OAL length of the .32 H&R is lasted at 1.350". .22 Mag. Cyl. is 1.405" over chamber. OAL Length of .327 Fed. Mag. listed at 1.475" so I doubt Factory Loads would fit inside the envelope of the converted Frame/Cylinder/Barrel combination.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Chev. William,

You misunderstand, you cannot rechamber 22 cyls for the 327. You have to start with 32 H&R cyls which are longer than 22 cyls to begin with, and also the chambers are not recessed, so there's no 'cleanup' of the rear face needed.. That's why factory 327s will work in it.

I find 32 H&R cyls on ebay, gunbroker and from custom pistol smiths.

I've done at least a dozen of these already over the last 6 years and every one of them works with factory 327 cartridges, just by deepening the chambers .130".

If your host gun is a 32 H&R, there's no adjustment needed to the barrel/cyl gap. If you start with a 22 host gun, of course the barrel will be changed and the gap is just set to the factory 32 H&R cyl length.
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
Chev. William,

You misunderstand, you cannot rechamber 22 cyls for the 327. You have to start with 32 H&R cyls which are longer than 22 cyls to begin with, and also the chambers are not recessed, so there's no 'cleanup' of the rear face needed.. That's why factory 327s will work in it.

I find 32 H&R cyls on ebay, gunbroker and from custom pistol smiths.

I've done at least a dozen of these already over the last 6 years and every one of them works with factory 327 cartridges, just by deepening the chambers .130".

If your host gun is a 32 H&R, there's no adjustment needed to the barrel/cyl gap. If you start with a 22 host gun, of course the barrel will be changed and the gap is just set to the factory 32 H&R cyl length.

I have been looking on ebay and gunbroker for ".32 H&R Cylinders" for the Ruger Single Six with no luck.

That is why i have My Gunsmith re-cutting a Pair of Ruger Single six .22 Mag. Cylinders for two .32 Caliber cartridges as Trial Experiments BEFORE I have My Revolver Modified.

The Two Cartridges involved are:
1. .32 Automatic, a S&W family size one cut into a Blued cylinder.
2. .32 Long Colt, a Colt family size one cut into a Stainless steel cylinder.
So far the two Cylinders have cost less than $100.00 Total for the Experiments.
I do not know what the charges wil be from my gunsmith yet.

I will Continue to look for actual Ruger .32 H&R cylinders for the Time being.
I have not considered Having a cylinder Made From scratch Yet. I will Look into that option also.
My queries to Ruger only resulted in my being told They Do not Support changing Caliber/cartridges by Users other than the ones Listed for Specific Models and Still want to do the Work in house for a replacement Cylinder fitting.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
DA_TriggR4Ruger said:
Finally. A 25 acp that looks FUN to shoot.

So far it IS "Fun to Shoot"! My "Grip' and 'Hold' are still 'weak' and I need two hands to support the 'long' and seemingly 'Muzzle Heavy' 10-5/8" Barrel. I am getting 'patterns now about 3 to 4 inches in diameter and generally round firing Factory .25ACP at around 5 to 7 yards. A more experienced friend has been able to get consistent 'dings' out of a 12 inch Steel hanging target at 100 yards so the "Potential is there".

On the other Hand, I have fired three round of Hand Loaded 63 grain Lead FN bullets over 3.0 grains of Alliant BE-86 that have around twice the 'muzzle rise of Factory Prvi Partizan .25ACP cartridges and they seemed to hit about the Same Point of Aim. This I will explore further now that I have a Chronograph set up available to me.

I have fired across the chronograph a series of Hand Loads with various Alliant Bullseye charges and 63 grain Lead FN bullets with results running from 1.36 grain of propellant yielding average 947.1fps up to 1.89 grains of propellant yielding 1244fps average.
A series of Prvi Partizan Factory 50 grain FMJ fired across the Chronograph the same day yielded average of 755.0fps (the day was over 100 degrees F.).

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

varminter22

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
275
Location
Nevada
pruger45 said:
Why the 25 acp?
He replied, "Just because", and I think that is a fine answer!

I'm envious. Its a great project and sounds like an excellent shooter. Mucho fun, and useful too.
 

Hondo44

Hawkeye
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
Messages
8,041
Location
People's Republik of California
Chev. William said:
I have been looking on ebay and gunbroker for ".32 H&R Cylinders" for the Ruger Single Six with no luck.

That is why i have My Gunsmith re-cutting a Pair of Ruger Single six .22 Mag. Cylinders for two .32 Caliber cartridges as Trial Experiments BEFORE I have My Revolver Modified.

The Two Cartridges involved are:
1. .32 Automatic, a S&W family size one cut into a Blued cylinder.
2. .32 Long Colt, a Colt family size one cut into a Stainless steel cylinder.
So far the two Cylinders have cost less than $100.00 Total for the Experiments.
I do not know what the charges wil be from my gunsmith yet.

I will Continue to look for actual Ruger .32 H&R cylinders for the Time being.
I have not considered Having a cylinder Made From scratch Yet. I will Look into that option also.
My queries to Ruger only resulted in my being told They Do not Support changing Caliber/cartridges by Users other than the ones Listed for Specific Models and Still want to do the Work in house for a replacement Cylinder fitting.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

If you send back your 32 to Ruger, and ask for a replacement cyl, they will do that. Cheaper than a cylinder from scratch.

Because the 22 cyls are shorter than 32 cyls, as you know, the barrel will need to be set back .057" to fit .22 cyls with a proper bar/cyl gap. Unless you test your first to cyls with a huge gap.

But once you do set the barrel back, you'll have to shorten your factory 32 Mag cyl to fit in the gun. That's not a problem for the 32 mag because the chambers are more than long enough.

But here's a problem with making a 327 cyl if re-chambering 22 cylinders for your 32 family of cartridges:
The 327 just barely fits as the gun is now, so setting back the barrel would negate the use of a 327 cyl.

An option is to use 32 cyls for all of your other cartridges; the 32 long, 32 Colt, 32 ACP, etc., and sleeve the chambers. And you won't need your gun modified.

For the 32 long you'd only have to sleeve the throat area so you don't have excess free bore to the throats. But for the 32 Colt family and 32 ACP, the entire chamber would need sleeving and then re-chambering. You'd just have to have Ruger fit more than one cyl to your 32 if you send it back.

Oh well, you weren't originally intending to have a 327 cyl, so just something to think about now if there's a potential to want to add a 327 in the future.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress!
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
Hondo44,
Your Comments are similar to my thinking at this time.
The Checking I wanted to do on the re-cut .22 cylinders is to measure just what is the resulting Web width and Chamber to Outer Cylinder wall thicknesses, especially at the Locking cuts.

If I feel comfortable with the Measurements and calculated material Strength remaining, then I will have the Frame/Barrel reworked to fit the Modified cylinders and fire them before having the .32 H&R cylinder reworked to fit the New arrangement.

As to the .327 Federal Magnum use, I doubt I will be using Factory Loaded .327FM Cartridges ever, BUT I will be using .327FM Brass for making .32 Extra Long Center Fire cases by Swaging them down to .318" diameter and trimming to 1.150" length. A .32 S&W Long or Special is too Short to make into this particular case.
There is always the chance I could use some .327FM with Hollow Base Wad Cutter Flat Front Bullets loaded almost completely in the brass, just a very Short protrusion ahead of the Crimp, to stay inside the cylinder envelope of my Project.
Due to the Pressures and potential Recoil; Provision for crimping must be allowed for in this event.

Also, my second Ebay Purchase Stainless Steel 6-Shot .22-MAG cylinder arrived, and I have a Blued & Fluted .22 Cylinder on order through Ebay.
This Fluted cylinder I am thinking of Having re-cut for .25ACP but with Straight cylinder Chambers instead of the Conical ones of my First .25ACP that were cut with a standard ".25 AUTO" chamber reamer and have a Taper from breech to throat. I note the original, 'auto', chamber allows considerable expansion of the fired brass and therefore needs more 'working ' of the Brass in resizing before reloading. I am hoping a straight cylinder of about .278" or .279" will control the brass expansion better from the Sized diameter of .276".
Right above the Web, my fired cases are measuring .281"-.282" diameter from the "auto' chambered cylinder, indicating a potential shorter usable life.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: UPDATE on the 6-shot .25ACP cylinder idea.
Talking to my gunsmith I found out that A.) it MIGHT work to use a 6-shot cylinder in a 8-shot Ruger BUT B.) it is NOT Recommended nor supported by my gunsmith for SAFETY reasons.
There would only be ONE Cylinder rotation locking feature effective for the use instead of the TWO Designed into the revolver.
Also, positioning the cylinder to Lock in proper alignment with the Barrel would depend upon the SHOOTER manually rotating the cylinder to position After Cocking the Revolver. with the Possible discharge with a misaligned cylinder.

This Idea IS ABANDONED due to the SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS involved.

Chev. William
 

varminter22

Single-Sixer
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
275
Location
Nevada
I am still intrigued by this project.

Besides the $$$ involved, however, is also the question about available bullets. I don't think I'll ever get into casting.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of variety in commercially made bullets. Are there JHPs and/or lead bullets suitable for small game available commercially? (Did I simply not look hard enough?)
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
varminter22,

For .25ACP, there are 35 grain JHP and 50 grain FMJ-RN easily available from commercial sources.
"Hunters Supply does not currently list their 63 grain FN "airgun" bullet but i was able to get then to make me 1000 earlier this year on Special Order.

I believe Hornady #2505, a roughly 60 grain JHP .257" diameter would be very good when they Produce it again (still listed a 'temporarily suspended').

.257" diameter bullets can be Sized down to .250" to .252" using standard sizing dies.

For the Longer case lengths the 'pointy bullets are attractive as long as the Overall length of the cartridge is watched. Too Long an OAL will not work in the about 1.4" Ruger cylinder Chambers.

Watch supplier listings for suitable bullets.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
As actual .250" or .251" Diameter, you are correct. the problem is that Commercial Development of the .25ACP cartridge stopped With the Pocket semiautomatic pistols. the only .25ACP rifles commercially produced were, i believe, predating WW1 and not pursued after that conflict.

However, .257" diameter is much more available and running them through a .251" sizing die makes them suitable for use. I do have one Dummy .25ACP with a 120 Grain Spire point bullet seated and crimped in it to chuckle at. The Bullet exposed is LONGER than the Case! Such a cartridge might be chambered in a rifle but not in a Semi Auto Pistol or your typical pocket revolver.

Sigh, the Hornady 2510 is still listedl as "Temporarily Unavailable" and it looks like a Very Good Idea forth e..25ACP and also for a Light bullet for the longer .25 Magnum Auto/6.35x26mmSR and 6.35x28.6mmSR cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
I received a Replacement "opened" .25ACP Carbide Sizing die (to size to .288" diameter) from Lee so now I can continue my reforming of 5.7x28mm FNB cases to .276" body diameter in three stages/steps.

Starting at The case diameter of .314", I first expand the Neck and shoulder area to .250" Inside Diameter; then first stage swageing in a .300" Diameter sizing die; next is second stage swaging in a .288" sizing die; followed by Third stage swaging in a .25ACP (.276") Sizing die. this yields a 'parent case of .276" Body diameter and about 1.215" to 1.260" long (depending upon the Case manufacturing Lot); which I trim to proper length for my various cartridge needs.
I am considering adding a fourth Stage of Swaging between the second and last ones to 'compensate for the progressively Harder Forces involved in the swaging Process.

I note that the Polymer coating applied to the original 5.7x28mm Case by the Manufacturer normally Survives the Swaging Processes except for a short section about the Height of the web that is stripped off in the last Stage of my current Forming process. This saves me needing to add Lubricant to the cases for Sizing, and removing the Lube after Swaging is Complete.

Past experience has shown that it is Possible to Swage NEW "PPU" Hornet Cases down to .276" body diameter in one Stage with a RCBS "RC" Press; but it IS hard. Doing the swaging in two stages would reduce the Effort.

The reformed Hornet cases end up at 1.380" long and require much more trimming to get down to the desired case lengths.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
Now I have a new, Custom fitted, Badge wallet to carry my R.A.T.S. Badge!
Here is a Photo of the badge mounted in the Wallet:
98edfc30-8e7b-4714-90cb-2f3177d707ff_zpsnmwsf6my.jpg


I am Pleased at how the Modified Wallet now fits the Badge.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
Mid January now and I a 'patiently' waiting on my gunsmith to Work down his backlog of work so he can do something on my "Low Priority-Low costs" projects.
Cylinder to be done for boht my .25Cal and my .32 Cal Ruger Single action Revolvers; Barrel fitting on two .30 M1 Carbine Receivers (one is .45 Cal and the second is .30 cal bu tboht are RIFLE lengths); Work on a Stevens Model 44 Conversion to Center Fire with Fitting of both .25 Cal and .32 Cal Barrels; to be submitted Marlin model 56 Levermatic conversion to Center Fire and .25ACP (detachable magazine feed); to be submitted Winchester !890 third model conversion to Center Fire and .25ACP (tube Magazine feed) with a Short (20 inch) Barrel.

The rifle projects are viable as the .25ACP is rated at the Same, or similar, MAP as the Rim Fire cartridges they were chambered for.
My Stevens Rifle Project is in a Receiver built with a Wider than Typical Breech Block (about .600 inch wide) and fitted to "Two block" solidly against the rear shoulders of the Receiver Slot when in Battery position. The Two barrels intended fro this action are: First - a .25 Stevens Chambered Barrel that will be used with hand made CF Cases; and Second - a Cut back .300 Win Mag Take off Stainless steel Barrel re-cut to fit and chambered in .32 Long Colt (.300" bore and .308" Groove diameters. This will be similar to what I have slugged Stevens .32 Long Rf barrels dimensions at but slightly longer, at about 24" length.
This SS barrel will also be fitted with a 'shroud to allow 'free floating it from about 2" forward of the Breech face, looking for accuracy at 100 yards and further.
Eventually the shroud will have a Wooden Forearm added for Appearance and Practical use.
 

Aeroscout9

Single-Sixer
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
220
Nice Revolver! I'd love to see a picture of the cylinder frame center fire conversion if possible.
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
To date, my attempts to photograph the frame detail have Not Gone well, possibly because the Present camera was a Christmas Gift back when 640x480 Color was the "Latest and Greatest" digital camera development.

It seems every attempt has come out blurry so far but I wil continue to try when the weather here is less Wet and Cold.

Best Regards,
Chev. William
PS: As an interim solution i provide the following description oof the Conversion as I understand my gunsmith's comments: He machined a Custom Bushing and firing pin each with the Tip and port offset Downward in the Frame hole so the new Tip position strikes the Center Fire Primer close to the Center, although not quite on exact center due to practical constraints of the Frame hole wall positioning. Also the bushing was made long enough to seat against a Small shoulder in the back end of the Frame hole and with a slightly convex 'Breech End Face' to both Prevent the bushing moving deeper in the Frame and to take up some of the residual "head space / clearance" between Recoil face and Cartridge Base. Otherwise the Frame was not Modified nor the Action mechanism otherwise modified except to rework the advancing portion to correctly index 8-shot cylinders instead of the original 6-shot cylinders.
Visually, there are tooling marks on the convex face of the bushing concentric with the Firing pin Tip hole apparent under ten power Magnification as a result of the Machining Process. the Firing Pin Tip is formed in a nearly semi-spherical form and leaves a rounded depression in Primers.
To date, the strongest Propellant charge (3.1 grains of BE-86 slightly compressed in a .25ACP cartridge behind a 50 Grain FMJ-RN Bullet at .905" OAL) I have discharged in it has not 'Squared' either Primer Rim nor Primer Firing Pin Tip impression edges, all remain with rounded contours.
Chev. William
 

Chev. William

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
59
this last weekend here was mixed in weather and its results.
Friday was intermittently cloudy, sunny and occasion light rain.
My solar power installation was completed except for the enlarged power wiring between pole and house.
Saturday was mostly sunny with occasional clouds.
monitoring functions were enabled via local internet,
Sunday dawned WET with Rain, Wind and Dark Clouds all day and into the evening.
Winds tore loose my Shelter Tent along side my house and flipped th frame up-side-down onto my gravel driveway, apparently bending several parts and rending the tie down lines that had anchored it.
Today I will go out to survey the 'damage' and see if it can be 'resurrected in a useful condition.
Also done Sunday; I drilled the 1890 firing pin offset to take a new 'dowel pin' tip intended to be center fire. a 5/64 inch diameter Dowel Pin was pushed in and rough trimmed to length to work in the 1890 action. Hand trial seem to move freely so next is bolt assembly and final fitting/trimming to properly function in the firearm.

Best Regards,
Chev.William
 
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