Ejector rod?

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Racer9

Single-Sixer
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Nov 27, 2011
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I looked at a used Vaquero, and a used Blackhawk today. On the Vaquero, the ejector rod easily slid into the cylinder while the next chamber was lined up with the barrel. On the Blackhawk, the cylinder needed turned 1/8" or so out of line to get the rod to enter the cylinder. Is that normal, or is there a problem?
 

DPris

Buckeye
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Dec 20, 2003
Messages
1,343
The New Vaquero uses a small spring-loaded plunger in the breechface that indexes the chamber in line with the loading gate cutout.
The full-sized Blackhawk does not.
The Flattop Blackhawk does.
Denis
 

Chief

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Jul 8, 2003
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This may have been addressed before but why is it that the NM Blackhawk cannot be timed to align with the loading gate at the click of the pawl?
 

Racer9

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Thanks for the info. Salesperson said it was nothing to worry about, but who trusts salespeople?
 

Hondo44

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Chief said:
This may have been addressed before but why is it that the NM Blackhawk cannot be timed to align with the loading gate at the click of the pawl?

There's quite a bit more to it:

All of the New Models (except Bearcat) are designed so the hammer isn't brought to half cock for loading/unloading, therefore the cyl pawl isn't moved and the cyl doesn't get positioned to line up.

As posted above the New Vaqueros and NM Flat Top Blackhawks introduced in 2005 added a new feature; the Reverse Indexing Pawl System (RIPS). Their machining/production lines were designed and set up to include the RIPS. But existing model production lines are not and expensive to change/reprogram, not to mention the production downtime required while all that takes place.

To answer your question, any new model can be "timed to align with the loading gate at the click of the pawl".

And the good news is that it's a simple retrofit as well:

You can see the device (3 parts) in the hammer channel to the lower left of the cyl pin hole shown below.

Hex retaining screw in hammer channel for spring and indexing pawl button:
262de92c-215a-4d67-bcff-3d6b0ec2e91b.jpg


If you do this in conjunction with Solution #1 or #2 below, you will not need to order and fit a new Ruger free spin cylinder pawl or grind a needed small divot in the top of the trigger guard strap (under the frame) required for the factory cyl pawl. Cylinder chambers will align with loading gate opening exactly like the New Vaq., NM Flat Tops and the Old Models.

Ruger free spin pawl on the right:
10-17-2010_1a.jpg


Divot for free spin pawl on NM Flat Tops and New Vaqueros with the reverse indexing pawl system shown on the left:
10-17-2010_3a.jpg


It's a simple installation that any smith or anyone can do that can drill a hole and tap threads.

Needed is two drill sizes and a tap: basically drill one hole thru the hammer channel, counter drill the same hole with a smaller drill and tap threads in the counter drilled hole only. It helps to have a gun with it, to determine exact location to drill, hole sizes and depth.

You'll need to "free spin" the regular cyl pawl the 5 minute way described in #1 below Or purchase and install Ruger's or Power Customs free spin cyl pawl for another $30 or so, #2 below.

If you do #1 below you do not need to purchase the Ruger pawl or modify the trigger guard under the frame.* Just purchase and install three little parts listed below by their correct Ruger names that comprise the New Vaq and NM Flat Top Blackhawk cylinder alignment indexing pawl. $10 in parts, must have skill to drill small hole and tap threads in the hole. Refer to a New Vaquero or Flat Top Blackhawk for the proper location and size of the hole.

"Reverse Indexing Pawl System" parts:

Names of parts, Ruger Part #s & Brownell Part #s (about $15 total)
Cylinder Rotation Stop Screw KMVQ04501 780-001-294ah
Ejector Alignment Pawl (not to be confused with the Cyl pawl) KMVQ04502 780-001-292ah
Cylinder rotation Stop Spring KMVQ04500 780-001-293ah

Cyl free spin pawl (must be shortened for single six frame size) KMVQ00701 780-001-296WB

* If you choose to use a Ruger free spin pawl, here's how I cut the divot. Use a thin cut-off blade in a Dremel tool. With grip frame in a vice, and your old grip frame nearby for reference, hold the Dremel with two hands for control. And replicate the divot in the new grip frame. Be cautious not to let the cut extend to the outside edge of the trigger guard strap or it will show when assembled. You can also clamp the Dremel tool in the vice at an angle and hold the trigger guard strap instead.

Simpler solution alternatives with or w/o using the Ruger RIPS parts:

Solution 1. Modify your pawl to a free wheel cylinder pawl. No cost and almost no skill required (also see FAQs below):
http://marauder.homestead.com/files/FreeSpin.html

Your cylinder will freewheel in both directions with loading gate opened. The most immediate benefit of course for New Models is easier alignment of the chamber with the loading gate opening for loading/unloading. But there are additional benefits: if you load a round that might have a high primer, pulled bullet or other problem that makes the cylinder tight to turn, you don't have to pull the cylinder to unload it. It's much safer to just turn the cylinder in reverse and unload it thru the loading gate. Therefore, I do this on Old Models as well. I prefer this to solution #2.

Solution 2. Install a Power Custom replacement 1/2 cock hammer about $125. By cocking the hammer to 1/2 cock the NMs will work just like OM Rugers by aligning the chamber and loading gate. You can also do this on New Vaq and NM Flat Tops if you want them to operate the same as Old Models. You can also purchase the entire Powers kit: hammer, trigger, pawl and transfer bar; see below.

I hope this is helpful,
 

Chief

Single-Sixer
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Messages
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Location
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Thanks Hondo. Yes that clears it up for me. Appreciate the tutorial. I wonder if Ruger is ever going to contemplate making this change to the Blackhawks?
 

Hondo44

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Chief said:
Thanks Hondo. Yes that clears it up for me. Appreciate the tutorial. I wonder if Ruger is ever going to contemplate making this change to the Blackhawks?

I can only use the example of the new 454 and 480 Bisley models they announced last Aug as an example, and they do not have the RIPS alignment system.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LipseysBisleys.htm

So I have little hope that they will.
 

Chief

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jul 8, 2003
Messages
257
Location
Illinois
Hondo44 said:
Chief said:
Thanks Hondo. Yes that clears it up for me. Appreciate the tutorial. I wonder if Ruger is ever going to contemplate making this change to the Blackhawks?

I can only use the example of the new 454 and 480 Bisley models they announced last Aug as an example, and they do not have the RIPS alignment system.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LipseysBisleys.htm

So I have little hope that they will.

Well I guess that was sort of a rhetorical question anyway. :) I don't find the standard Blackhawk action to be a problem but I see it mentioned so often that I just thought I'd try to find out just what the mechanical reason was for the way it functioned. Thanks for the link, interesting article.
 

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