.45 Colt +P

Any ideas why Ruger does not recommend shooting .45 Colt +P in their .454 Casulls? I emailed the other day inquiring about a load for my Toklat, their response was basically this, the load you asked about is fine, we don't however recommend shooting .45 Colt +P in your gun.

Hun, super RedHawk can handle those all day and nite, ps

It's a liability issue. Ruger doesn't recommend ANYTHING but SAAMI spec factory loads in any of their guns.

........remember when you could ask a question and actually get an answer? But that was waaaaay back before the term "deep pockets" was coined by the lawyers.........

Yep, there is no such thing as .45 Colt +P . So how can you expect a manufacturer to 'okay' it when there is no SAAMI standard? As we say ... Your on your own. So, ask the bullet manufacturer and get what .45 Colt +P means to them, and then make an informed decision on whether you want to shoot it in the .454.

+P type .45 Colt loads are almost all I shoot out of my .454 SBH at this point.

Rclark said:

Yep, there is no such thing as .45 Colt +P . So how can you expect a manufacturer to 'okay' it when there is no SAAMI standard? As we say ... Your on your own. So, ask the bullet manufacturer and get what .45 Colt +P means to them, and then make an informed decision on whether you want to shoot it in the .454.

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45 Colt +P does exist. Just ask Buffalo Bore, Underwood Ammo and others. I wonder what Ruger says about the Buffalo Bore 45 Colt +P loads?

There is no SAAMI standard for a +P 45 Colt load.

You can download the SAAMI velocity and pressure documentation at:
http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

I'm sure my hand would give out before my Alaskan blew up on a hot .45 Colt load.
Just look at the pressures you are loading your custom .45 Colt loads to and stay below what pressure .454 would be.
I enjoy 300 gr. hard cast FN bullets over 10.4 gr. of Unique

I'm sure my hand would give out before my Alaskan blew up on a hot .45 Colt load.

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Of course. But that's not the point. As there is no SAAMI spec for .45 Colt +P, what does .45 Colt +P actually mean? Nothing. Could be 16K, , 20K, 60k as there is no standard. So you have to go to Manufacturer of ammo and find out, "Oh, this is a 28K PSI load", therefore it will run fine in my .454 (rated at SAAMI 50K CUP not sure what psi).

Rclark said:

I'm sure my hand would give out before my Alaskan blew up on a hot .45 Colt load.

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Of course. But that's not the point. As there is no SAAMI spec for .45 Colt +P, what does .45 Colt +P actually mean? Nothing. Could be 16K, , 20K, 60k as there is no standard. So you have to go to Manufacturer of ammo and find out, "Oh, this is a 28K PSI load", therefore it will run fine in my .454 (rated at SAAMI 50K CUP not sure what psi).

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Most .45 Colt +P ammo I have shot has been in the 30,000 psi range -- give of take. The SAAMI spec for the .45 Colt is 14,000 psi. I know of one load in .45 Colt that is loaded hotter, but it is designated a .45 Colt RHO (Redhawk Only) +P load by Garrett. The .454 has a SAAMI maximum pressure of 65,000 psi. No one that I know of loads .45 Colt +P loads anywhere near .454 Casull level.

One thing you all are NOT looking at is the build up at the END of the .45 Colt case and the LENTH of a .454 case.... Just load Mid - Range loads for the .454 and be done with lurker load getting into some ones light weight .45 Colt gun frame down the road.....

I may be way off on this also but am I wrong in thinking that the 45 Colt casings are a little thin also for a +P load ?

I may be way off on this also but am I wrong in thinking that the 45 Colt casings are a little thin also for a +P load ?
Sorry for the double post. Must have been a hiccup in the internet at the time.

I don't remember them being any thinner than a 44 mag

am I wrong in thinking that the 45 Colt casings are a little thin also for a +P load ?

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Well, all I use is Starline, and they rate their .45 Colt brass as strong as .44Mag brass. A 'hot' load for me in .45 Colt is around 20K psi. I do believe the 'not strong' .45 Colt case is a myth, that best lies in the past with the o' balloon headed brass. Also if you read Linebaugh's Dissolving the Myth, I think he talks about using Federal brass, testing Winchester, and maybe even Remington back before there was Starline brass.

Just load Mid - Range loads for the .454 and be done

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That's how I would approach it. But then I reload, so that option is open to me. I am almost 100% confident that any factory load marked .45 Colt +P would be fine in a .454 as I am sure the vendors are loading Ruger Only Loads (up to 30K).... But still, there is no SAAMI .45 Colt +P, so a shooter MUST be cognitive of 'what' he/she has in hand, and if if doesn't say on the box, a call is in order.

Thanks Rclark,
I also use Starline brass.

Whenever one shoots hand loaded ammo in a handgun, he is pretty much on his own as far as the manufacturer is concerned.

If you are shooting a large frame Blackhawk or a Redhawk, then IN MY OPINION any loading published by a reliable source, such as one of the powder companies, will be fine. I have been shooting a load in the 4" Redhawk that produces close to 1200fps with a 275 gr. cast bullet with no pressure signs at all.

But the key is to use a little judgment and do not try to produce +P loads with faster powders. +P loads should be developed with powders like 2400, 296, H110 & others of similar burning rate. 8)

.45 Colt cases are sufficiently thick for loads that exceed .44 Mag energy figures.
The "thin-walled .45 Colt case" is a myth.
Denis

jstanfield103 said:

I may be way off on this also but am I wrong in thinking that the 45 Colt casings are a little thin also for a +P load ?

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Have a look at John Linebaugh's Piece on the Myths of the 45colt

http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm