The .45 Colt Cowboy Special....

After reading about this round, decided to give it a try, more or less. Imade up a dummy round, cutting the .45 Colt case to the same overal length as the .45 ACP. Trimmed and seated a 250 gr. RNFP bullet, then tried to seat it in the .45 ACP cylinder. Lacked about 1/8" in trying to chamber. ????? I thought. Tried another cylinder, and a drop-in fit. First thought was maybe rim clearance at the ratchet. Nope, saw daylight there.

Well, I had some .45 ACP factory stuff on hand, Winchester Silvertips. Lo and behold! They wouldn't chamber either. Took a cast bullet and drove it through the troats and found throats ran .449" ~ .450".

So, dropped it off for Keith to ream to .452"

Curious as to see how this is all going to come out. I'm referring to it as the .45 Xtra Short.

Bob Wright

Was the tight throated cylinder from one of the recent run of .45 Flattops?

So this was intended to be a 1st generation SAA safe 45 Colt loading?
I have played around with 41 Special and some 38 S&W loads in cut off 38 special cases for basement range use.

toroflow said:

Was the tight throated cylinder from one of the recent run of .45 Flattops?

Click to expand...

No, Sir. This gun was made when Ruger was not making convertibles. Had to send the gun in for fitting at that time. This about ten or fifteen years ago. Never used the ACP cylinder until now.

And Don Lovel asked:

So this was intended to be a 1st generation SAA safe 45 Colt loading?

Click to expand...

No, Sir. This was a "just because" type of undertaking.

Bob Wright

Not quite the same but I had my cylinder cut so it'd fit the auto rim. I also had to have the throat cut to .452 so it'd chamber a wad cutter. I saw the idea in a Handloader issue.

Cutting the cylinder, as RustyW depicts, would allow the use of .45 Auto Rim in my gun. But that was not my intent, as many years ago I divested myself of most of my ACP and all of my AR brass.

My idea was to salvage split .45 Colt brass, of which I get quite a few over the years and use those in the ACP cylinder. Cutting the cylinder for AR brass would provide too much headspace to use the Colt brass.

Bob Wright

Of course not needed for your application since you no longer have or use AR brass but just FYI:

Even if the cylinder rear surface is "faced off" for AR rims, the Colt short brass of ACP length will still headspace correctly, but on the case mouth like ACP cases, instead of on the rim. Taper crimped rounds (like ACP cases) work best with the square cut shoulder in the chambers.

If one were to cut a 45LC cartridge case down to ".45 Colt Cowboy Special" length, he would in effect, have a .45 Colt Cowboy Special cartridge case, or as Mr Wright terms it, a ".45 Xtra Short". At that point, he could decide to either load it with a roll-crimped .45LC bullet for use in any 45LC revolver, or load it with any taper-crimped .45 Cal bullet so's the completed cartridge would also work in a .45ACP cylinder. Or leastways, as has been mentioned, might work in some .45ACP cylinders.

The point I'm dancing around is that the ".45 Colt Cowboy Special" was designed by a CAS shooter as a means of addressing a specific problem. Problem being, that the big ole 45LC cartridge case did not allow for the pip-squeak power levels which most CAS shooter liked to use at the time. The obvious solution was to use a much smaller cartridge case. Problem there was, there weren't one which would work in an unaltered .45LC six-gun....hence the new-fangled .45 Colt Cowboy Special, which from the onset was intended for using in .45LC revolvers. The fact that it is the same length as the .45ACP had only to do with the consideration of "how to load/reload it". In other words, that particular length was chosen so a guy could use a standard .45ACP/Auto Rim die set to load the thing. The fact that it could be finagled to also work in a 45ACP cylinder was just icing on the cake.

DGW

DGW,

Well said.

But the theory of making the 45 Cowboy Special in ACP length was more than just for reloading it, it was to take advantage of shooting it in ACP chambers with a proper sized throat beginning right at the end of the case mouth instead of a long 'free fall' bullet jump to the throats in the 45 Colt chambers. Thereby enhancing accuracy, not all important to every cowboy shooter, but important to many other cowboy and non-cowboy shooters.

Anyway it died and once the supply of brass is gone, I genuinely doubt we'll see anymore produced. Most cowboy shooters made the Starline already loaded Schofield ammo and brass for 'powder puff' loads and/or Trailboss powder discovery before or since the advent of the cowboy spl brass.

Also the short barreled Marlin 94's would not hold the required TEN rounds used in most Cowboy stages. The short rifles are very quick handling guns for this sport. Accuracy is secondary in CAS. Quick is the main concern.

I'm not familiar with the Marlin problem, but didn't they hold 10 .45 Schofields?

I'm familiar with a few "Marlin problems", but none related to ammo capacity.
That said though, I know for a fact that a "trapper length" Rossi '92 will not hold 10 .45LC rounds. On the other hand, the more common 20" carbine will hold 11, or leastways, every one that I've ever owned would.

DGW

By shortening the magazine spring and installing a stainless follower, I was able to load 10 in the magazine on my .357 Marlin 1894 20" round barrel carbine. Before it would only hold 9. My .45 Rifles all are .24". Short Rossi rifles hold 9, that is true.
Hondo, yes, they will hold enough Schofields but that adds another can of worms when most shooters want to use the same ammo in both rifle and handgun to simplify feeding their toys. Schofield brass is not always easy to find and cost is usually more.

The .45 colt Cowboy Special was originated by a Cowboy shooter who goes by
Adarondack Jack many years ago. He modified the shell carriers on Marlin rifles to run them and had a slick system. He had a couple special runs of ,IIRC, 50K pieces of brass. The first run was sold out when I first heard about it.
He used to post a lot on Paco Kelleys leverguns but I have not heard of him in years. He may be found on the sass net forum? I hope he is still ok.

When these first came out, we made up a bunch of cases by cutting down LC brass. Worked OK, particularly with Trail Boss loads.

We did notice that you may run into a little difficulty with "long" bullets because with the cases cut back that far you are attempting to seat the bullets into the beginning of the interior case taper. The 200-grain lead bullets worked out OK. A friend bought a few of the "factory" short cases and we had no problems with the longer bullets in them.

It was an interesting experiment.

JMHO

Ale,

More good info on the subject.

45 Colt Cowboy Special brass is available again. If one is interested here some info. They even sell loaded ammo thru dealers. I tried the .45 Special in my New Varquero's . Did not do much for me. But I know some cowboys who still use this. I have a large Email (too much to post) with the dealers and other info, if anybody wants it PM me.

For BRASS ORDERS, we are currently taking orders directly at:



AMERICAN COWBOY AMMO, LLC.

17902 La Cantera Pkwy # 305

San Antonio, TX 78257






COWBOY 45 SPECIAL BRASS


ROUNDS

PRICE

SHIPPING

TOTAL


250

90.00

5.95

95.95


500

180.00

12.65

192.65


1000

335.00

12.65

347.65


2000

670.00

17.90

687.90

Are these folks still selling this brass?

I just bought 250 couple months ago

I'm not getting what is so attractive about making this new round. What's the point? I came across this Wiley Clapp article,

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2013/12/18/a-new-cartridge/
He calls the cartridge "more efficient" for reloading. I'm also not sure what that term might mean. Once your press and powder measure are set up, what step is speeded up by simply using a different sized case? What does more efficient reloading mean anyway? Faster? Easier? Uses less powder?

True, the .45 Colt was originally a black powder cartridge and most CAS shooters use smokeless - whatever works for them. And yes, there is usually lots of extra room left over inside the case. The extra room hasn't been a huge problem in the past, in spite of complaints about pressure differences created by differently angled shots.

One important fact not mentioned is the concept of shooting a short round in a long chamber. There will be a big jump between the bullet and the throat of a cylinder, and likewise between the bullet and leade in a rifle. That extra space translates into unpredictable velocities and erratic accuracy problems. So, complaints about pressure differences and accuracy don't really change much between a .45 Colt and a mini-45.

Anyway I thought the whole point of CAS was to use equipment that was actually used back in the day. Why complicate things? Are we going to see a whole new breed of cowboy action shooters now that we finally have the mini-.45?

Carry_Up