Brittish/canadian police service sixes?

So there's a guy on gunbroker selling these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=478867989

I did some googling, and the Century Arms import mark plus a few posts on various forums has implied to me that these may be ex-British police guns. Anyone have any info on this? I collect police guns and am curious about buying one of these eventually, and I've been seeing numerous blue service sixes with worn finishes and import marks popping up on GB in the last year.

I've never heard of the British or Canadian connection for the Six Series; only India. Not saying it ain't true .... just that it's a new twist to me.

Now, rumor has it some of the GP100s were in Canada though.

With out 'proof marks' I'm going with Canadian and then with a municipality. Not RCMP, for sure.
Interesting. Too bad they can not be imported into Ca.
Terry T

Agree with Terry, probably Canadian, probably provincial or city PD, not RCMP. Have not heard of any being sold to Britian. The ones sold to India were .380 Rim.

Terry T said:

Too bad they can not be imported into Ca.
Terry T

Click to expand...

You actually can if you find an FFL willing to convert them to single action for the purpose of the DROS; then they just DROS it as a roster-exempt single action. It's not a super common practice but it's completely legal; it's a similar process to the now outlawed SSE conversion DROS's, but isn't done frequently enough to annoy Sacramento into outlawing it. It's a good thing too: without it there's no way for collectors and revolver competition shooters to get anything interesting. Google "Single Action Exemption DROS CA" for more info. If you search around on Calguns.net you can probably find an FFL in your area who'll do it for you. Hell I might even know of one if I hunt around in my old PMs on there, feel free to PM me about it.

TheThurmanator said:

Terry T said:

Too bad they can not be imported into Ca.
Terry T

Click to expand...

You actually can if you find an FFL willing to convert them to single action for the purpose of the DROS; then they just DROS it as a roster-exempt single action. It's not a super common practice but it's completely legal; it's a similar process to the now outlawed SSE conversion DROS's, but isn't done frequently enough to annoy Sacramento into outlawing it. It's a good thing too: without it there's no way for collectors and revolver competition shooters to get anything interesting. Google "Single Action Exemption DROS CA" for more info. If you search around on Calguns.net you can probably find an FFL in your area who'll do it for you. Hell I might even know of one if I hunt around in my old PMs on there, feel free to PM me about it.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ with you on doing this. I am an FFL and do sell Ruger Six series guns on Gunbroker at times. I had a person from CA email me about doing this (remove the hammer dog to disable the DA function, but send the parts with the gun to the CA FFL) one time so I checked on it. I read the laws and nothing in the law gave me the idea that it would be legal to remove parts to make a DA into a SA. I then called the DOJ section that handles this. Their response was that doing this was illegal. They stated that the exemption was for handguns that were DESIGNED and BUILT wholly as single actions, not guns that were designed and built as double actions and just because certain parts were removed to disable the double action function, this did not make them a designed and built single action handgun as the parts could be obtained and replaced, making it a double action handgun again. They told me that if they were made aware of someone doing this, they would investigate and prosecute if necessary.

I still sell guns to people in CA, but I check the DROS first to insure the gun is legal in CA. I value my FFL more than trying to side step the law just to sell one gun to a person in CA.

I don't agree with the CA gun laws but until CA gun owners get them changed they are in place so they must be followed. Maybe the wording is not as clear as it should be and others read things into it, but if others want to try to skirt them, that is on them but I will not be a party to it.

We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of the law but I don't do things that may jeopardize my business.

RoninPa, Thanks for the detailed answer. Ca. gun laws are more than frustrating. The accumulation of various laws is beginning to have a serious damping effect on the legal firearms trade.
There are 37 million folks living in Ca. We do not all think alike.
Terry T

Here's some info from the Ruger reference on some Canadian "SIX" series DA's...

first a blue model...
SDA-85H R.C.M.P. contract. Known s/n's 160-94833, 160-94838, 160-98363, 160-98826, 161-00029 through 161-00035 and 161-97988 (this last serial number may actually be 160-97988). 150 made (of this number, an overrun of 15 were sold to U.S. distributors or Ruger employees).

also...

a few in stainless
GF-35 s/n 157-21052. Produced for possible sales to the R.C.M.P. 5 made. 2 known. Extremely rare.

Looks like I didn't get the other GF-35 that popped up recently in my notes. I believe it is consecutive to the one listed above.

Note that the "5" in the catalog numbers are the abbreviation for 5" barrel.

Chet15

Thanks Chad. I checked the Reference and with all the others that were contacted (Australia, etc.) it seemed that they all were marked in some way with the agency they were going to.

Do you know if the ones for the RCMP were marked RCMP? I seem to recall that they were and I thought the RCMP models had a lanyard loop also (but I could very well be mistaken ).

Also, from the pictures, these are standard 4 inch barrels by looking at the amount of barrel ahead of the ejector rod housing and comparing them to other 4 inchers.

The 'RCMP' models (the only 5" barrel Six Series double action) were not marked "RCMP" because they were test guns only and Ruger did not secure the contract.
S&W got the RCMP contract and those ARE marked "RCMP".

As opposed to the CHP guns where, I believe, Ruger (through a distributor / dealer) actually secured the contract but than lost it before delivery actually began.
We had a similar situation a few years ago when SIG was low bidder but then the CHP went to court to overturn the bid and give it to S&W. "Compatibility with existing issued guns" or some such thing. Court went along with it.
Terry T

Thanks Terry, that adds to my knowledge base for the Six series.

Terry T said:

The 'RCMP' models (the only 5" barrel Six Series double action) were not marked "RCMP" because they were test guns only and Ruger did not secure the contract.
S&W got the RCMP contract and those ARE marked "RCMP".

As opposed to the CHP guns where, I believe, Ruger (through a distributor / dealer) actually secured the contract but than lost it before delivery actually began.
We had a similar situation a few years ago when SIG was low bidder but then the CHP went to court to overturn the bid and give it to S&W. "Compatibility with existing issued guns" or some such thing. Court went along with it.
Terry T

Click to expand...

Well now...... that being said lets look at this one, :wink:

This SDA-85H serial #160-94838, was reimported to the USA, when I called Ruger it lettered!! as such, I ask the lady if it was part of a contract made for a Foreign government and was told yes,,, :wink:

I would be interested to know why you think they were never made :?: :?: This gun would appear to shoot a hole in that theory I would think. Interesting to say the least,
It is the only known reported SDA-85H "re-import" that I have seen or heard of,,,,WMG may be able to help clear it up in his new book,,,hint, hint,, :wink:
Terry

Terry,
Please re-read my post - I did not say they were never made. I offered that they were not marked "RCMP" because they were not adopted.
I have one of the few (15 ?) 'over runs' that were offered for private sale in the States.
Yours is unique in that it has been re-imported and may be one of the original ones sent to the RCMP for testing.

This is a photo of mine, serial #160-94833



Terry T

Got It! :wink: Mine was shipped March of 1984.

Makes you wonder what all is hiding in the warehouse at Ruger,,,, love to be a mouse!
Terry

PS:- Neat RCMP Patch in your picture.

Great looking Series Six in an ideal barrel length.

Terry,
Thanks, E-bay is the world's flea market - police patches are just one of many Gun or Ruger related items I've noticed there!

I've also noticed many of the odd pieces that I've picked up over the years letter as having a shipping date in late 1988 in spite of having earlier manufacturing dates (via ser. no.). It's my guess that the warehouse of which you speak was, in fact, cleaned out of left over Six Series double actions in late 1988. Still....I have not yet interviewed The Mouse so......
(However, the recent Ruger auctions do suggest some special ones were squirreled away in a dark corner. :shock: )
Terry

Terry T said:

Terry,
Thanks, . Still....I have not yet interviewed The Mouse so......
Terry

Click to expand...

:mrgreen: Touché !! ROFLMAO
Terry

RoninPA said:

We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of the law but I don't do things that may jeopardize my business.

Click to expand...

All your points are completely valid Ronin, and while you're the first person I've come across who seems to think that DROSing a non-rostered revolver in this way is not legal, I consider your opinion every bit as valuable to me as anyone else's. I suppose I should have added "as far as I know" to my comment claiming that this practice is "completely legal". It is also your right to operate your business in whatever manner you feel most comfortable. That said, I've run into quite a few CA FFLs at this point who did/do SSE and SAE conversions on non-rostered handguns for the purpose of sale within CA, and none of them so far have run into any problems with the DOJ. So I guess it's all a relative thing. Like you pointed out, it's always a risk/reward cost-benefit analysis when doing business with firearms in a place as screwy as CA, and since the laws can be interpreted six ways from Sunday, it's usually up to the FFL and the Buyers as to what is/isn't legal and what is/isn't worth a risk.

To all others, thanks for all the helpful points! I've got a lot of research to do, but this is all a great start. Anyone have any particular resources to recommend on general police and military service revolver history? I'm just starting out in this area of collecting and can always use a new source of information.