Question regarding on-FFL to FFL

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TPAshooter7.62

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
116
Hi: I want to send one of my revolvers to another buyer in another state but send it directly to
The FFL in his state. I want to obtai. A copy of the FFLs license but the FFL refuses, instead, stating I should send it directly to the FFL and verify it with FFL EZcheck. Is this correct? Why can't Imget a copy of their FFL license? Is it prohibited? Thanks. TpA.
 

s4s4u

Hunter
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Dec 16, 2006
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Location
MN, USA
I have always received a copy of the incoming FFL's license with the buyer's payment or via email. I do not understand why an FFL would refuse to provide a copy.
 

22/45 Fan

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Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Me too. I've had a scans of the receiving FFL's license e-mailed to me and the FFL holders had no problems doing it. I suppose if there is an "easy check" way to verify that they are an FFL it would be ok but a copy of the license is always better.

BTW, If you ship the gun yourself you will have to use Fed-Ex or UPS overnight service and that's going to be expensive. If you have a convenient local FFL, they can ship it via USPS Priority Mail at much lower shipping cost. Depending on their fee, it may be less expensive to do it that way.
 

hittman

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Each FFL does things their own way and most are legal, just different interpretations of the law. It's their business to run, however they see fit.

Easiest, most convenient and worry-free way for me has always been to hand the gun to my local FFL and let him send it.
 

Busterswoodshop

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Jun 20, 2009
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Sonoran Desert Az.
Some FFL's don't like to send their information to an individual for some reason.
They will only send it to another FFL.
Other FFL's don't seem to care.
Like stated above USPS Priority Mail in a flat rate box is the cheapest way to send a handgun but they will only accept it from an FFL.
 

CraigC

Hawkeye
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Location
West Tennessee
He's being silly. I have a copy of my local FFL right here on my desk to speed things along when I buy online. No big deal but some act like you're asking for their social security number. Bottom line, it is legal to do what you're trying to do and the buyer should've verified that his local FFL would receive from an individual. Although it may be cheaper to just go through yours and ship USPS.
 
Joined
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Connecticut
If it truly is FFL to FFL both FFLs are required to have actual copies. If you are shipping through an FFL, your FFL must have a copy of his. If you are shipping and are not an FFL , only EZ check is required
 

xtratoy

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Location
Vancouver WA USA
I have had FFL's give me copies also. I have had FFL's that wouldn't.These ones seem content to do the extra legwork to provide the information to the other FFL. They also seem to be the FFL's that don't accept guns from non-FFL senders. I tend not to use the ones that make it difficult. I think that some FFL's fear that someone may alter the info on the copy of his license so that a buyer might get guns sent directly to them self.
 

ginzo

Single-Sixer
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Jul 10, 2014
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Location
North Port, FL.
I'm going with this, although each has their own way of doing things. I take my FFL's info with me when I travel out of state in case I "find" something I can't live without. Do the deal, and call my FFL on the way out the door to let him know something is coming. Easy, peasy!! :)

CraigC said:
He's being silly. I have a copy of my local FFL right here on my desk to speed things along when I buy online. No big deal but some act like you're asking for their social security number. Bottom line, it is legal to do what you're trying to do and the buyer should've verified that his local FFL would receive from an individual. Although it may be cheaper to just go through yours and ship USPS.
 

Flatbush

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Oct 11, 2010
Messages
216
Location
So. Fla.
The FFL transaction can be a challenge when using Gunbroker. There have been times when situations arise in settling deals that have called for a great deal of patience and diplomacy. In a perfect situation, all settlement questions would be ironed out beforehand- often times I have deals that were far from perfect.

I am firmly in the camp that paying my FFL to box and ship the item for me is money well-spent. I just try to build these costs into my sale price as best I can.

Flatbush
 

CraigC

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West Tennessee
ginzo said:
I take my FFL's info with me when I travel out of state in case I "find" something I can't live without. Do the deal, and call my FFL on the way out the door to let him know something is coming. Easy, peasy!!
Exactly!
 

diyj98

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Jan 26, 2000
Messages
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Location
WV
The thing that pisses me off is a guy who can't trust me with a copy of his FFL, but insists on a copy of my driver's license. I can't be trusted, but I expected to trust them. I've started telling those people "no sale" just to make a point.
 

hittman

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My FFL uses a red ink stamp on his copies that says "Not For Face to Face Sales".
 

ginzo

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Jul 10, 2014
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179
Location
North Port, FL.
That is brilliant!!!
See how different they are. Mine knows me well enough to just give me his info, on the other hand, that wouldn't be offense to me AT ALL!!

hittman said:
My FFL uses a red ink stamp on his copies that says "Not For Face to Face Sales".
 

9x19

Hunter
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Dec 1, 1999
Messages
2,561
Location
Texas
ATF setup FFLEZcheck to eliminate any chance for fraud. https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

As an individual you don't need a copy of their FFL, would you ask Ruger for a copy of their license before sending your gun to them for warranty work?

Remember paper copies can be faked... a scanner and a PC and anyone can change the expiration dates, change the license number, even the mailing address.

FFL EZCheck lets the seller verify the dealer they are sending the gun to has a valid license and also their licensed address. All you need are the first three and last five digits of their license number to look them up on the EZCheck website.

IMO, this is something you should use even if you are sent a paper copy for the reasons above.
 

diyj98

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 26, 2000
Messages
258
Location
WV
I know it's most FFL's policy to require a copy of the seller's drivers license, but it's not a legal requirement. The firearm merely has to be logged in as to where it came from. Of course it's the FFL's right to refuse transfers from individuals as well.
 

TPAshooter7.62

Single-Sixer
Joined
Feb 15, 2011
Messages
116
diyj98 said:
The thing that pisses me off is a guy who can't trust me with a copy of his FFL, but insists on a copy of my driver's license. I can't be trusted, but I expected to trust them. I've started telling those people "no sale" just to make a point.

You shouldn't take it personally that this is the arrangement some FFL holders require. It may seem like an unfair "one way street," but the penalties for an FFL not following the law are much greater that say, laws penalizing your occasional transaction law abiding gun hobbyist.

The standards for the FFL holders are higher than that of your "Joe the Gun Owner" types. These FFL business owners have to undergo an ATFE inspections at the drop of hat and there had not be a discrepancy in their record keeping. Fines up to thousands of dollars and Federal prosecution hang over their heads, not to mention the watchful of of their respective state agencies and LEOs. Furthermore, most of these folks are small business owners. A photoshopped or hacked license used by a criminal will invariably penalize the innocent FFL holder who had the misfortunate of letting a wayward license copy fall into the wrong hands. Imagine such an FFL owner trying to untangle a web of legal issues and proceedings to get out from under a misdirected charge against them. By that time, they might as well be bankrupt, spending thousands of dollars on attorney's fees as well as trying to recover unjust fines and penalties.

They eke out a living from the majority of us gunowners, some of them trying to soothe the irritation of those who angrily balk at the some of the prices they charge, especially the regulars who come in on a day to day basis to pester them for a deal. They have to play nice not only with the ATFE but also, any state regulatory agencies, and most importantly, us, since we are the ones that are giving them the business. It must take passion to run a gunshop, having to play diplomat as well as recordkeeper and business owner all at once.
TPA.
 

diyj98

Single-Sixer
Joined
Jan 26, 2000
Messages
258
Location
WV
TPAshooter7.62 said:
diyj98 said:
The thing that pisses me off is a guy who can't trust me with a copy of his FFL, but insists on a copy of my driver's license. I can't be trusted, but I expected to trust them. I've started telling those people "no sale" just to make a point.

You shouldn't take it personally that this is the arrangement some FFL holders require. It may seem like an unfair "one way street," but the penalties for an FFL not following the law are much greater that say, laws penalizing your occasional transaction law abiding gun hobbyist.

The standards for the FFL holders are higher than that of your "Joe the Gun Owner" types. These FFL business owners have to undergo an ATFE inspections at the drop of hat and there had not be a discrepancy in their record keeping. Fines up to thousands of dollars and Federal prosecution hang over their heads, not to mention the watchful of of their respective state agencies and LEOs. Furthermore, most of these folks are small business owners. A photoshopped or hacked license used by a criminal will invariably penalize the innocent FFL holder who had the misfortunate of letting a wayward license copy fall into the wrong hands. Imagine such an FFL owner trying to untangle a web of legal issues and proceedings to get out from under a misdirected charge against them. By that time, they might as well be bankrupt, spending thousands of dollars on attorney's fees as well as trying to recover unjust fines and penalties.

They eke out a living from the majority of us gunowners, some of them trying to soothe the irritation of those who angrily balk at the some of the prices they charge, especially the regulars who come in on a day to day basis to pester them for a deal. They have to play nice not only with the ATFE but also, any state regulatory agencies, and most importantly, us, since we are the ones that are giving them the business. It must take passion to run a gunshop, having to play diplomat as well as recordkeeper and business owner all at once.
TPA.

Years ago I had an FFL , so understand the process. But don't tell me you can't trust me with an FFL copy, especially if you want to mark it "for XYZ transfer only" or some other restriction, but then tell me you HAVE to have a copy of my drivers license. There are plenty of crooked FFL holders out there just like there are crooks in every other line of work. They have a right to make whatever policies they want, but I also have a right to sell or not sell to whomever I want.
 
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