First Notch... Question

Not looking to "open a can of worms".

Speaking of Old Models here...

What exactly is it's intended function.. After reading something on another site about the possible "dropped horse saddle sturrip falling while chinching up a saddle causing the discharge on a live round under the hammer"... I just have to ask, and how much force would it take to snap off the trigger/hammer notch causing a discharge?

Good question.

The intended function of the "safety" notch on the Colt SAA was to keep the firing pin from resting on the primer of a live round which only takes a minimum blow to discharge the round. However, in practice, it didn't take much more of a blow to snap off the case hardened notch and still discharge the live round.

In the days of yesteryear, many 'a cowboy found this out the hard way. It could happen several ways but a falling stirrup or a dropped gun were common ways sufficient to break off the notch. That's when the habit of loading five and leaving an empty chamber under the hammer came about.

Ruger followed the traditional SA design including use of the "safety" notch on their OMs, with the same unfortunate results to uninformed shooters. And since Ruger sold the lion's share of SAs, they had the most occurrences of self inflicted gun shot injuries or deaths, and product liability caught up with them big time. Although not all of the incidents involved use of and breaking of the safety notch, which may have prevented a few accidental discharges, it's just not foolproof enough to risk one's life on. Or in Ruger's case, more lawsuits. Hence the New Models with safety transfer bars and free conversion kits for OMs installed by Ruger.

I suspect that breaking the notch on a Ruger is a bit more difficult on the Ruger hammers because they are not case hardened and therefore not as brittle as the Colt hammer notches. I don't know how much force it would take, but according to Murphy's law, if it can happen, it will.

I hope that helps,

Thanks Jim,
It was your post (from the other board) that prompted this question..my curiosity was peaked as neither my Father or GrandFather carried 5 in a Six..and since they are not around to ask why...I was always taught Six in and Hammer on the First Notch..and have carried that way since I was a kid.

My Mom has a picture of her Father on a white horse with some sort of SA on his hip, she says she remembers him riding and carrying when they lived in Oklahoma and he was a DirtFarmer..

I have been in the machine and fabrication field for almost 40yrs and have seen my share of accidents and failures...lawsuits and misery, perhaps there is always more to learn..both ways.

On any of the non-upgraded OMs load one, skip one, load four, cock the hammer, squeeze the trigger and gently lower the hammer.

I Have read that ,if dropped from saddle hight , a colt SAA will land on it's hammer 8 out of 10 times due to the way they balance.
Many a horse or rider have been killed or injured that way.

Colts.... Are a given.

Rugers... ?? Were the recorded accidental discharges due to a live round under the hammer on "First Notch", or were they with hammer down.. Or slipped hammer due to operator error.?
Not to belabor the point.. Just wondering how much is myth or wives tales run amuck.

Nitro Acres,

Excellent question. As I wrote in #2 post above: "Although not all of the incidents involved use of and breaking of the safety notch, which may have prevented a few accidental discharges, it's just not foolproof enough to risk one's life on."

Over the years of Ruger's liability suits, I've read many accounts of actual occurrences, and you're correct, most were operator error by having the hammer down on a live round, and not using the safety notch. A slipped hammer would only cause injury if the operator broke one or more of the safety rules about handling firearms, like not having them pointed in a safe direction while handling.

But, I've read tests of Rugers with hammers on the safety notch (and unloaded of course), dropped from waist high on a hard surface and shear off the notch. And even if there's only a 1 percent chance of the notch breaking, I wouldn't suggest chancing it. Just MHO.

Jim,

Thanks for helping separate some of the "Facts from Folklore"...

Some of the things one reads on the interwebs that are taken for facts and passed on and on, that were actually facts, based on fiction to begin with, are at times astounding, these days.

Perhaps one day when I get caught up in the shop, I will fixture up a hammer/trigger and see just what force it really does take to snap a primer. When the hammer is resting in the correct "First Notch".

Hammer all the way down, Yeah no question it will go off when struck, (kinda how it is designed).

So true.

Snapping a primer in a 45 Colt cartridge with hammer all the way down takes an unbelievably light blow, I was amazed. I just tapped the hammer with a small wood stick and it went off.

I snapped the hammer spring on an Italian cap and ball revolver years ago. My friend and I spent about an hour trying to discharge the loaded cylinder, by striking the guns hammer with a carpenter's hammer without getting even one chamber to fire. The caps were getting mutilated, but would not go off no matter what we tried.

Of course we had the gun pointed in a safe direction, if it were pointed at something important I am sure it would have gone off by barely touching the hammer. Ed

Yeah, percussion caps are harder to detonate than center fire primers with their internal anvil in the center of the primer and a sharp pointed firing pin.

Here is a story of an incident like you are talking about. This resulted in a law suit as I understand it. Only part of the short is here but you might be able to find the rest.
http://www.wnysafari.com/Alaskan%20Misadventure%20by%20Lou%20DePaolis.pdf

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rmbentl&id=I423

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=rmbentl&id=I423

The above story, (No Offense to Bear Paw Jack intended or implyed).. Is an example.. The poor fellow in the story had an "accident", the handgun discharged inflicting harm... The gunbelt came unfasten'd and the hammer struck the ground, rock, or something..was the hammer resting Down or in First Notch??
There are those who will say "If it would have been resting on an empty hole it would never have happned" and while that may be true, it was an accident rooted in the carlessness of the owner.

Facts.. Most Stories are devoid of these.. Lawsuits prove only that on that day, in that court, the outcome of that particular situation.. You can indite a ham sammich and you can convict the innocent.. Lawsuits for damages by their very nature have to prove it was anyones fault other than the plaintifs... McDonalds hot coffee in grannies lap is a prime example, Slip and Fall suits out the wazooo by people wearing stupid shoes. gun owners who shoot themselves or others, by failing to eject the last round in the chamber... Pulling the trigger on a thought to be empty weapon.

While I am sure there are others with stories and snappy saying like "five beans in the wheel" and folklore of how cowboys rolled up currency and kept it in the emptiy hole.

I suppose this horse has been flogged to death many times.. Seat belts, handrails and safety sealed for your protection labels...Ruger New Models with "Warning Billboards"..despite the transfer bar.

Perhps some folks just should not own cars, motorcycles, power tools or firearms

I was taught on my Fathers 1957 Ruger Blackhawk .357, the first notch was Safety, Never leave the Hammer Down.. Empty or Otherwise. That lesson was learned in 1964.. And never forgotten.

Nitro,

Good rant, and all so true!

NitroAcres.... your are correct to ask what that safety notch is for, and the answers provided mandate an "old model" Ruger single action be carried hammer-down on an empty chamber. That sixth round is not worth your leg or your life. As one who consulted for the Ruger legal team in a lawsuit where the plaintiff and his attorney dreamed of huge reward for personal misconduct, permit me to say the plaintiff lost and Sturm, Ruger won.

Your question is valid, and you had the common sense to ask.
David Bradshaw