Thinking of converting super Blackhawk to......

Well guys I need some input here, I'm thinking of sending my 44 super blackhawk to Gary reeder. I am leaning towards a 455 Alaskan express. This would be my first custom gun and I was wondering if anyone has had reeder build them anything and if so were they pleased with the finished product, finish/lockup/etc. Also, this may be a long shot but is anyone familiar with, or fired the 455AE? I know it's a necked down 475 case but I was interested in recoil. Looking forward to some feedback......

Go to singleactions.com for good info on customs. Lots more info over there.

Reeder does good work, I have three of his conversions (two heavy 45 Colt 5 shots and a 500 Linebaugh) and only one of them has Gary's laser artwork on it. PS- Unless you reload, avoid the wildcat GNR cartridges.

jdr308 said:

Well guys I need some input here, I'm thinking of sending my 44 super blackhawk to Gary reeder. I am leaning towards a 455 Alaskan express. This would be my first custom gun and I was wondering if anyone has had reeder build them anything and if so were they pleased with the finished product, finish/lockup/etc. Also, this may be a long shot but is anyone familiar with, or fired the 455AE? I know it's a necked down 475 case but I was interested in recoil. Looking forward to some feedback......

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I too would lean more towards a more mainstream cartridge that is available commercially. Even if you reload, if you need ammo in a pinch, you need to be able to buy it -- unless of course you have your heart set on a wildcat, then by all means indulge yourself.

Reeder's guns leave me COLD, all that ugly engraving on them and the even uglier two tone stuff he does so much of. If you were to get one you may want to consider a standard caliber, as his GNR wildcat cartridges are only available through him, or you better become a handloader, if you are not already. Some of the guys on his forum just ooh and ahhh over his guns, not to mention all the excessive drooling going on over them. Just not my cup of tea, so to speak.

^ I 100% agree, but to each his own I suppose.

MaxP said:

I too would lean more towards a more mainstream cartridge that is available commercially. Even if you reload, if you need ammo in a pinch, you need to be able to buy it -- unless of course you have your heart set on a wildcat, then by all means indulge yourself.

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Sometimes getting something that's NOT mainstream is the point.

I sent a New Model SBH over to Gary last year. I wanted the barrel shortened, conversion to 454, and a few others. Rather than piecemeal the conversion, I opted for the El Diablo conversion (I vacillated between the El Diablo and the original Black Widow). I am VERY happy with the work done (BTW First five shots were dead center in a dinner plate at 15 yards with factory ammo). I would concur with going to a factory load (although I do handload). I also have the option of standard or very hot 45 long Colt loads (just be sure to clean well before going back to 454 loads). Holster is a "Duke" rig from EPS. Here's the pics:

Varminterror said:

MaxP said:

I too would lean more towards a more mainstream cartridge that is available commercially. Even if you reload, if you need ammo in a pinch, you need to be able to buy it -- unless of course you have your heart set on a wildcat, then by all means indulge yourself.

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Sometimes getting something that's NOT mainstream is the point.

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I get that, but personally practicality plays a role with me in that all of my custom big-bores are used in the field. Besides, I'm not sure a .455 GNR will do anything that a .454 Casull or 5-shot .45 Colt won't do. However, I fully support the notion that if someone wants something, then they should indulge themselves.

MaxP said:

Varminterror said:

MaxP said:

I too would lean more towards a more mainstream cartridge that is available commercially. Even if you reload, if you need ammo in a pinch, you need to be able to buy it -- unless of course you have your heart set on a wildcat, then by all means indulge yourself.

Click to expand...

Sometimes getting something that's NOT mainstream is the point.

Click to expand...

I get that, but personally practicality plays a role with me in that all of my custom big-bores are used in the field. Besides, I'm not sure a .455 GNR will do anything that a .454 Casull or 5-shot .45 Colt won't do. However, I fully support the notion that if someone wants something, then they should indulge themselves.

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None of Gary's GNR calibers will kill anything any deader than a standard factory load will. Most of his custom GNR calibers are just one factory load necked down to caliber "below it" .454 to .44, .44 to .41 and so on. Not that his calibers are bad, just don't impress me any. Like I mentioned earlier, a lot of drooling, oohing and ahhing over nothing, especially the engraved stuff, etc.

jdr308 said:

I am leaning towards a 455 Alaskan express. Also, this may be a long shot but is anyone familiar with, or fired the 455AE? I know it's a necked down 475 case but I was interested in recoil. Looking forward to some feedback......

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The gun is the 455 Alaskan Express. The cartridge is the 455 GNR.

I don't know the recoil in Ft Lbs of energy. But more recoil than a 300 gr 44 Mag, 454 Casull, 480 Ruger. Less than a 475 Linebuagh or 500 S&W Mag. Have you fired any of the above? That will give you some idea.

If the appeal is having a wildcat cartridge like Varmintterror posted, then that's what you should get. It's your gun. I hope you plan to keep the gun, though. It'll have a very small resale market, therefore more difficult to sell and also to get it's full value price. Just FYI.

Well thanks for the replies. I'm a hand loader so not being able to go buy factory ammo at the local Wally World dosent bother me. I understand that the cartridge won't do anything more than a 454 or a stiff 45 colt and I would probably never hunt anything that would require the full potential of the cartridge, I just like the fact that its different. Lets face it, do we need a camaro or a vette with 600+ h.p.? hell no,but it sure would be fun! :lol: I'm just kind of bored with the factory offerings and think its time for something different and the Alaskan express caught my eye. I have also been looking at some freedom arms so nothing is set in stone yet.

Bearbio- very nice 454!

jdr308 said:

Well thanks for the replies. I'm a hand loader so not being able to go buy factory ammo at the local Wally World dosent bother me. I understand that the cartridge won't do anything more than a 454 or a stiff 45 colt and I would probably never hunt anything that would require the full potential of the cartridge, I just like the fact that its different. Lets face it, do we need a camaro or a vette with 600+ h.p.? hell no,but it sure would be fun! :lol: I'm just kind of bored with the factory offerings and think its time for something different and the Alaskan express caught my eye. I have also been looking at some freedom arms so nothing is set in stone yet.

Bearbio- very nice 454!

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If you want something different one of Gary Reeder's custom gun/cartridges is definitely it. Remember if you ever resell it people may not want to pay the price, his guns aren't cheap. Personally I don't see the $2,000-$3,000 worth of work in one, especially when you have to supply the base gun, as in most cases. Just my opinion but I don't care for some of his grip styles either, but hey, that's just me.

I would never submit an Old Model Super to that.

Now, a New Model, well . . . meh.

JMHO

If you want a more reasonable price quote give me a shout.

Www.baysidecustomgunworks.com

In terms of being underwhelmed by 'necking down a cartridge to a bullet one size below it,' then I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I've been looking for "the right cartridge" for deer for many years. I've been through about a dozen cartridges, but hadn't ever found "the answer" to my nagging question. Whitetails are rather fragile creatures that don't require 300grn pills to anchor, and anything flat shooting in a revolver tends to be pretty brutal on recoil. I played with light 44mag bullets, moderate to light 41mag, 445 super mag, 454, 475L, 480, 357max, 45-70, super hot 357mags, but I just never quite got where I wanted. The big bore stuff with light bullets never had accuracy worth a hoot, and there just wasn't enough case volume in the smaller stuff. I was very close with a 357/44 Bobcat magnum about 10yrs ago, but the stupid plastic collars that only survived a shot or two at best left a sour taste in my mouth - let alone when they started jamming up my revolver as shards fell out of the cylinder.

For whatever reason, I had overlooked the 357/44 Bain & Davis for all of those years. I've been looking for a 158-180grn bullet around 1,800-2,000fps for a long time, and now I'm throwing them just under 2,200fps! So, necking down the 44mag to 357mag bullets landed me with the "Ideal Whitetail Revolver" - for me.

I suppose it's worth pointing out, since some folks seem so deterred by Gary's engravings - engraving work is always optional. That scrollwork with the goldwire inlays generally runs around $800 per revolver, so a $2,000-3,000 make-over is really only paying for $1,200-2,200. If you consider that most of the top guys charge around $750 for their "standard action job" these days, you're only leaving around $500-1,000 to do any 'extra work' like rechambering, cutting a new cylinder, replacing the barrel, etc. Custom "looks" always seem to add a lot of dollars, whether they add any significant function or not (often not).

Easiest answer is this - if ya don't like redheads, don't ask one to dance. Let them be, 'cuz there's plenty of fellas out there that do like 'em.

Varminterror,

Very well put.

Interestingly, my son has settled on basically the same favorite cartridge for his many-cartridge Automags. The 44 Automag rimless round necked to 357.

I suppose it's worth pointing out, since some folks seem so deterred by Gary's engravings - engraving work is always optional.

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I don't know the fella in question nor his work so I don't want to just pile on with the kick him in the shins crowd but...is that even engraving? Any true engraving I've seen has always been characterized by very sharp, crisp, edges unless the gun has been stripped and polished at some point after the engraving.

Anyway, maybe the photo just doesn't do it justice but that image earlier in this thread looks more like chemical etching, or maybe vibratory engraving, to me. I'm a form over function guy but it wouldn't stop me from owning a nicely engraved gun if the price was right...but...well...beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'll leave it at that.

As for necked-down wildcats - very sound theory behind them as pointed out by @Varminterror and if this fella is bringing that to revolvers and they function well I say more power to him. Look what the 270, 243, and 7mm-08 have done for hunting rifles...all are necked down military cartridges that provided much improved long-range hunting capability over their parent cartridges. If the guy is building solid, reliable, functioning guns in "oddball" calibers then we should all be happy that someone is expanding the options available to shooters, even if we don't personally want such a critter in our own stable.

I'm not saying that those who have pointed out the lack of commercial ammo availability and the probably reduced resale value of a wildcat conversion are missing the mark. Those are very valid points...they just aren't meaningful to someone who is looking for very specific performance gains and who can afford to do so. Personally, I pretty much never consider potential resale value when making any kind of purchase. I'm just not wired that way. If I'm already thinking about the possibility of selling something before I've "used it up" then it is probably something I don't need to buy, anyway.

John

Excellent comments, OldePhart/John

I understand wanting something different and there's nothing wrong with that. However, as a big fan of custom revolvers I still need it to be practical. I just don't see going through all the effort of forming cases and having to lube them every time they're resized like a rifle case when there is no benefit. Added velocity is nice but the question is, do you need it? I have to weigh effort versus reward and in this case, I don't see it. Not when you can accomplish the same thing with a five-shot 45Colt or .454.

As for Gary's work, it is a fair value but there's a reason why it costs less. He doesn't linebore his cylinders. He doesn't enlarge the frame window. He doesn't fill the frame window. He doesn't block the action and he doesn't completely refit the lockwork. His guns can be better classified as semi-custom production guns. His polishing is way overdone and his "engraving" is cheesy. Apparently he can't always get the stencil straight on the gun (as shown above) and the depth is uneven, also seen above. The gold bands are not gold wire. They are meant to mimic inlaid gold wire but they're really grooves with gold fill, as is done on lettering. I'm not suggesting going one way or another, only to closely scrutinize your options before plunking your money down. A Reeder revolver is not going to lock up like a bank vault like a Bowen, Huntington, Stroh, Clements, Harton, Linebaugh or Gallagher. It's going to be very much like a factory gun with an action job. He over-polishes to the point that it looks like it was done in a tumbler.

I'm trying not to be an A-hole but I'm gonna point out some stuff people should be noticing. What is the design across the side of the top strap? Are those leaves? There's not enough detail to tell. Where are they going? Why are they deeper towards the front and shallow in the rear? Why is the scroll on the cylinder not parallel with the edge? Why was the caliber designation not incorporated into the "engraving"? It looks like it was just masked off, which is exactly what was done. This is what happens when you're just throwing around stencils on an EDM, rather than actually planning the entire engraving project around a particular gun. I've seen Gary's guns where the "engraving" goes right across the head of a screw or the end of a pin. He really should stick to random critters and naked ladies. I don't mean to pick on BearBio and his gun but these are things I'm definitely going to notice when I'm deciding where to spend my money.




If you're paying $800 for the engraving you're not getting much out of your investment. This is what $800 worth of real engraving looks like. Note how the stamping, screws, pins, barrel wedge and the shapes of the various parts are incorporated into the engraving design. These aren't stencils picked out because they're "close enough". Hand engraving is never going to be perfect but the difference should be obvious.