NM Flat top question

I've got one of the Lipseys (I assume) flat top ss 4-5/8" 44 specials. Nice gun. BUT the hammer is pretty thin. Will it take the Super Blackhawk hammer with out any modification. Dumb question I'm sure it's just the first mid size I've had.
Thanks.

It is a drop in on the new model flattops, just like all of the others.

Thank you. I probably should have just pm'd you. I suspected that but I had an SP101 I thought would to but it didn't.

I have a pair of those stainless flattop .44 Specials that just got the Super Blackhawk hammer treatment. While they did drop-in, I wasn't very happy with the way they worked with the existing transfer bar. Mine had a sort of a step at the point of contact with the hammer which caused a bit of a hammer pinch. I ordered a couple of transfer bars from Midway and they didn't have this step. I installed these with the new Super hammers and no more pinch. Range testing was good and it really improves the function for me.
Other than that, it's an easy job with good results.

The best possible move IMO.

New Model FT 44 Spl with Montado SS GF and hammer and tuned.




AFTER CHANGING HAMMERS in New Model Rugers, the first thing to check is the transfer bar clearance with hammer for reliable firing pin function.

TO TEST HAMMER/TRANSFER BAR FOR MIS-FIRES:
With hammer fully cocked, press on the transfer bar to extend the firing pin and observe how far thru the recoil shield it protrudes. Now keep the trigger pulled back, drop the hammer and observe the firing pin again. If it doesn't protrude the same amount, you need to remove just enough metal from the hammer nose so the transfer bar is pushed tight against the firing pin and hammer channel. If you remove too much, the transfer bar will not perform its safety function. If firing pin protrudes the same amount, the problem is too weak of a spring. Also make sure hammer has no friction or contact with grip frame ears around its base to slow its fall; another potential issue when making hammer changes.

IF YOU MODIFY HAMMER NOSE:
At the range, double check the safety function by loading a live round under the hammer, point down range, cock the hammer, hold with thumb, release the trigger to uncock the hammer, take finger off trigger and release your thumb so the hammer falls. The round will not fire if safety transfer bar is functioning correctly.

Jim,
Slick looking NM/FT!
Thanks for the tips also.

Terry

Lots of good information here. Thanks guys.

I'm doing that very swap right now. While the SBH was a drop-in for function, I did encounter a cosmetic issue I hadn't anticipated. The SBH hammer I used has a smaller lower half. I carved on the upper half extensively, but I didn't touch the lower half and you can see how the curved edge is closer to the hole than it is on the Lipsey's original...





The result is that this particular SBH hammer doesn't fill the slot in the Lipsey's frame...





I'm OK with it for now, but I'll be on the lookout for another blue SBH hammer.

Hi Mike,

That's disappointing isn't it? There are no SBH hammers made with the larger base. And new SBHs, standard Blackhawks, and Single Sixes look just like yours.

That's why I prefer the Montado hammers shown above, but they seem to be unobtainable these days. They have the larger diameter bases. The only hammers with the proper diameter bases to fit the newer grip frames are those newly designed hammers since 2005; New Vaqueros (including the checkered Montado hammer) and Flat Top Blackhawk hammers.

Here's the story and the reason:

The grip frame 'ear' height varies a bit as the frames get newer but there was one specific big height increase. To simplify production in about 1998, Ruger began a 1/16" height increase of the standard cylinder frame-to-grip frame mating surfaces on both sides of the hammer to match the Bisley model cyl frames so that any style grip frame could be assembled to any main frame. Therefore the 'ears' on all plow handle and birdshead grip frames had to be made 1/16" taller as well. So there's basically two sizes of grip frame ears: the earliest is short, .530" pre 1998 and the latest is the tall .590" after 1998; measured from the very top edge of the grip panel to the top of the ears.

That's why it's important that any acquired grip frame be a similar vintage to the Ruger that you want to put it on. If the ears are too tall for the main frame they can be dressed down to flush, but if too short for a newer main frame, it's more work to dress down the main frame and blued guns have to be touched up with cold blue.

The other problem is, Ruger has not seen fit to enlarge the bases of any of the existing hammer designs to match the grip frames with taller ears! If I use a small base hammer, I fit the grip frame ears to the hammer. I have to do this every time I install a newer grip frame such as the N Vaq and Flat Top XR3 style steel grip frames or newer XRE-RED steel grip frames on older New Models and Old Model Rugers. That's what I would recommend for your flat top.

Small base hammers are 1.071" – 1.076".
New 2005 design with large base are 1.122" – 1.130" and with narrow shank.
Measured on the centerline of the two large holes from back of hammer base to over the full cock notch.

As shown in your photos above, narrower shank hammers (except Montado hammers) coincide with the larger base hammer design on the New Vaqs and the 1st anniversary new mid-size in 2005 flat tops and 2006 and later large frame flat tops, and in my opinion are much better looking. I know of no other reason for it other than the improved looks. For many years I was relieving the shanks by hand as is the Montado hammer on my 44 Spl flat top above.

44 Spl Vaquero mid-frame Sheriff Model, using a new Flat Top Blackhawk hammer with large base and narrow shank. Also Colt ejector, Belt Mtn Colt-style base pin. Ugly web behind trigger radiused.


Hope this helps,

Hondo44 said:

Hi Mike,

That's disappointing isn't it? There are no SBH hammers made with the larger base. And new SBHs, standard Blackhawks, and Single Sixes look just like yours.

The other problem is, Ruger has not seen fit to enlarge the bases of any of the existing hammer designs to match the grip frames with taller ears! If I use a small base hammer, I fit the grip frame ears to the hammer. I have to do this every time I install a newer grip frame such as the N Vaq and Flat Top XR3 style steel grip frames or newer XRE-RED steel grip frames on older New Models and Old Model Rugers. That's what I would recommend for your flat top.

Hope this helps,

Click to expand...

Jim,

Thanks, that helps a lot. If I'm understanding correctly though, it's a bummer.
1) You're saying the only wide spur hammer that would fill the slot is a Montado?

2) Montado's are only stainless, right?

3) If I like my carbon steel, wide spur hammer, I'd have to dress down the frame to fit?

If so, that might be the inspiration I need to broaden the project, remove the paragraph, case harden, etc. Thanks again.

Edit: it occurred to me that welding up the hammer and dressing it to fit the slot might be the better solution. Keeps the frame original and the hammer swap reversible, etc.

Hi Mike,

1) Yes. Or a Bisely which has lots'a meat and must be dressed down anyway.
New Model .22 , Bisley hammer with modified spur, and Bisley trigger.


2) Yes. But there are those who blue stainless for the same price as carbon steel.

3) Correct.

Welding works, here's a single six with spur cut off and wide SBH grafted on.

Jim,

Very nice mod on that single six hammer!

And while you're giving lessons... ...does the Bisley trigger drop in to a SBH?

In other words, If I start with a stock 5.5" stainless SBH and add a Bisley hammer and trigger, is that all the parts I'll need and/or will the innards require modification apart from the hammer trimming?

Mike,
That's all the parts you'll need, no internal mods or other parts needed. However a simple lengthening of the trigger slot to the front or shortening of the front top of the Bisley trigger is required to fit.

BISLEY TRIGGER INSTALLATION: the slot in the grip frame must be extended 5/16" and the 45 degree angle at the front of the slot replicated to install the Bisley trigger in a plow handle or birdshead GF. The best way to do this is with a cutoff wheel in a Dremel tool. Another option is to shorten the front end of the Bisley hammer to fit the existing slot.

The shorter the slot or less you take off the front top of the trigger, the further back the trigger will sit when at rest. As long as the trigger returns far enough forward to clear the hammer full cock notch. The contact of the trigger with the front of the slot dictates how far forward it will be when at rest. I now position them farther to the rear than shown on my Super Single Six above for my fat trigger finger. Although when cocked the trigger repositions far to the rear. The curved Bisley trigger is a vast improvement for my trigger control and feels like my rifles.

Much appreciated, Jim.

Jim,

Can you use a dressed down Bisley hammer with the OEM New Vaquero trigger or must the trigger be Bisley also?

Thanks,
Mike