Revolver education. help.

Help Support Ruger Forum:

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
So maybe some of you know that I enjoy tinkering on the P-series autos. I recently got a Super Blackhawk hunter and a regular Blackhawk.

I really like the hunter frame and trigger because both are bigger. Can you swap parts around easily as I do with the P-guns?

I have no experience with revolvers so if you explain something to me please dumb it down as I'm a newbie.

Thanks for the input.

If all this works out I may need a super BH stainless hammer and grip frame with stocks. But lets not get a head of ourselves.
 

Bob Wright

Hawkeye
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
7,686
Location
Memphis, TN USA
All New Model Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks are made on the same frame with the exception of the Fiftieth Anniversary Models. So parts are readily interchangable for the most part. Bisley grip frames can be put on Blackhawks, but require the Bisley dedicated innards.

This "Super" Blackhawk .45 Colt was originally a Bisley :



And this .45 Bisley was once a Blackhawk, converted to a Bisley, then back to a Blackhawk again:



And here, back to Blackhawk:




Bob Wright
 

k22fan

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
713
Perhaps I'm dumb enough to know a few basics not yet posted.

Aluminum BH gripframes are not fitted to the cylinder frame. They're just screwed on. Stainless and blued grip frames are made to be proud then filed and sanded to flush with the main frame. Non-stainless gripframes are blued after fitting. Random used steel grip frames can be either proud on your frame or already thinned too much. After proper fitting of non-stainless steel gripfames it's best if they are reblued.

As posted above, any non-Flat Top grip frame fits any non-Flat Top main frame but getting their sides flush isn't the only devil in the details. New Model Flat Tops use a thinner gripfame. Gripframe horn height varies not just between Bisleys and BHs but also varies depending on the age of BHs.

I don't like the regular BH plow handles so I put a larger Hunter gripframe on my older stainless .357 BH. The Hunter's horns had to be lowered and don't match the radius of the hammer. Most people don't notice the grip swap at all let alone the gap that should be filled in by hammer metal. I bought a Bisley hammer. After I reshape it to match the horns that gap will be gone and with the distinctive hammer spur maybe a few Ruger fans at the range will see my BH as a custom.

Many members love these projects and I hope a few specific ones land in the classifieds some day, but Replacing gripframes is expensive and the cost is not likely to be recovered.
 

medicdave

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
535
Location
Maine
Just to mix it up a bit, the flattop frames new xr3 will work on the other guns. All new model guns have the same grip frame spacing. The new xr3 is thinner in the actual grip section only, not the mounting surfaces. My brother and I fit a new xr3 stainless frame down to a new model single six from 1980. The raw frame was grossly oversize with the overhang at the trigger guard around 1/8" and the horns were 1/4" high. Nothing a bit of file work couldn't fix. Only issue I think you may run into is trying to fit an older grip frame to a newer main frame as they changed the back mainframe to bisley height a while back and older grip frames may be to short in the ears. Aluminum can be fit the same way, just need to polish it afterwords, or have it cited in cerekote or similar.

Stock grip frame



Unfit new xr3 installed



Ears brought down and fitted for width



Ears radiused and raw casting fitted to grips along backstrap and frontstrap



Polishing out file marks

 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
OOh this is getting good. Thanks guys for the great info.

K22fan,
That is what I feel I would like is the hunter grip on my Blackhawk. Also like the hunter hammer, wide styling. If you don't mind would you post pictures of your customs. Sound perfect to me. Would like to see.

As for fitting etc. I think I could do it but like you say may be priced out of my reach. Spare parts are not cheap like the semi autos I tinker on.

Thanks again to all. Feel free to keep posting additional pointers. I can save the tread for future tinkering worst case.
 

45Colt_Man

Blackhawk
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Messages
573
Location
Greybull, WY USA
Here are two stainless .45's that I added the hunter grip frames and super hammers to.

P1010012s.jpg


Dana
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
mmmm those are nice. That is what I would like to do in time. The hunter hammer really sets them off in my opinion.

Dang Rugers. They are addictive.
 

Varminterror

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
513
This has been a really interesting thread about ruger grip frames, considering "XR3" only shows up in one single post!!!

It has been my experience, that almost all 'new production' (call it the last ~20yrs) grip frames are interchangeable. Bisley grip frames have a couple unique parts, and bisley hammers and triggers must be modified - or the non-bisley grip frames modified - to work with non-bisley grip frames, but by and large, I have swapped dragoon, hunter, birdshead, bisley, XR3, and XR3-RED grip frames among dozens of Rugers and have only had to do minimal fitting.

As you mentioned, the "Hunter" grip frame is the same size as the Dragoon (square back trigger guard), and these two are the largest plow handle grips, the XR3-RED in the middle, and XR3 the smallest/shortest. The Bisley is the longest overall, but bisley ain't for everybody. Birdshead is the shortest, of course, and it ain't for everybody either. XR3 has the shortest pull, Hunter & Dragoon have the longest.

HOWEVER, I'd clarify that the entirety of this statement is not accurate:

roylt said:
I really like the hunter frame and trigger because both are bigger.

You're right about the grip frame, but the Hunter Trigger is not larger. The Hunter trigger is exactly the same as all other non-bisley, non-Hunter triggers, and the Bisley Hunter trigger is exactly the same as all other bisley model triggers. Ruger only makes 2 triggers for Vaqueros/New Vaqueros/Blackhawks/Super Blackhawks/Bisleys, Hunter models included. Bisley's have the bisley hammers and triggers, plowshares and birdsheads have the standard triggers.
 

k22fan

Blackhawk
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
713
Varminterror,
In roylt's defense, I think he was refering to the serrated trigger in less modern SBHs that was, in its day, wider than standard BH triggers.

Roylt,
At least on this forum, the "Hunter hammer" is customarily called a SBH hammer because they were the only SBH hammer for decades before Hunters existed. Not all grip frame swappers care if their steel grip frames are polished together with the cylinder frame.

Now here's a set of .45 Colts I wish Ruger would make.

45Colt_Man said:
Here are two stainless .45's that I added the hunter grip frames and super hammers to.

P1010012s.jpg


Dana
 

Varminterror

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
513
k22fan said:
Varminterror,
In roylt's defense, I think he was refering to the serrated trigger in less modern SBHs that was, in its day, wider than standard BH triggers.

I had thought about the Old Model SBH trigger, but since he didn't mention 3 screw or OM for either of his new purchases, I didn't assume he was going to have access to the old wide trigger. No idea where a guy could get them in current production sources, so based on his comments that he likes the big frame and wide trigger, I didn't assume he'd be swapping his ONE old SBH onto his BH and his BH stuff onto his SBH, but rather that he'd try to get the BH to share the same hammer, trigger, and grip frame as the SBH - which he won't be able to do easily unless he has an OM BH and finds a used OM SBH trigger for it.
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
Appreciate coming to my defense but I did indeed mispeak. I meant HAMMER not Trigger.

New to revolvers but trying to learn.

Sorta like ejector and extractor for semi-autos.

What 45 colt man made is what I would like to try too.

There was another guy on here (the forum) that posted he got a stainless blackhawk for 200 bucks! I still envy that purchase.

Really appreciate all the input. If someone has any during pictures that would be super too.
 

Varminterror

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
513
Midway has the Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter grip frame AVAILABLE right now for $111 each.

Ruger customer service parts department usually has Super Blackhawk Hammers in stock for around $30 each.

Shopruger.com has black laminate SBH dragoon/Hunter grips for $53 per pair, or rosewood for $38 per pair (these are listed as "square trigger guard", which is the dragoon frame, same size as the Hunter Frame). Non-Ruger aftermarket grips, of course, are available from multiple sources.

So for around $180 each, you'll be in business. You can likely sell off the other grip frames, grips, and hammers to make up most of that cost.

Take a look at bisley triggers while you're at it - about $15 each. They're a real pleasure, even in the non-bisley grip frames. You DO have to either file about 1/8" off of the nose of the trigger, or 1/8" extra clearance in the grip frame, but the bisley trigger's curve helps keep your finger centered lower on the trigger and not press upward against the bottom of the cylinder frame, so they feel a bit lighter due to the improved leverage on the trigger pivot.
 

medicdave

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
535
Location
Maine
Different strokes for different folks. I love the bisley hammer for my stubby thumbs, but bisley triggers bite the crap out of my trigger finger. No matter the grip frame most of my single actions have bisley hammers and blackhawk triggers. Just have to mix and match and see what ya like.
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
So Dragoon just means the old square trigger guard type grip frame? Is that right?
 

medicdave

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Messages
535
Location
Maine
Yup goes back to the colt dragoon black powder revolvers, even though the Walker actually had that shape first in 1847. Now to confuse you a bit more, the hunter has the dragoon grip with a round trigger guard. Round trigger guard ruger frames are also referred to as plow handle or plowshare grip frames. This is to differentiate them from the more vertical gripped bisley, which is based loosely off of Elmer Keith's #5 revolver that hybridized a colt bisley backstrap and a colt saa front strap. Confused yet? Best I can offer you is start reading John Taffin's "Single Action Sixguns" and go from there. The history of these guns really adds to the enjoyment for me.
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
I think I am following. One question, was the dragoon ever stainless? Or do I need to focus on super hunter only to get stainless?
 

Varminterror

Blackhawk
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
513
The Ruger Dragoon Frame is the Square Back trigger guard, largest grip model. The Hunter Grip Frame is the same grip size, but with a rounded trigger guard. That is the only difference between the two.

Both of these are larger than the XR3-RED grip frame of the old Vaquero and most Blackhawks, which is larger than the XR3 of the New Vaquero.

The Dragoon and Hunter are both available in stainless. The Dragoon is also available blued - I don't believe the Hunter has ever been offered in blue.

Blued Dragoon
0802.jpg


Stainless Dragoon
0804.jpg


Stainless Hunter - same size as two dragoons above
0860.jpg


Blued XR3-RED - note the grip frame is shorter, as apparent by the height from the grip to the bottom of the trigger guard
0810.jpg


Stainless XR3 - note the pull on this grip frame is shorter, as apparent by the distance behind the trigger guard to the front strap
5104.jpg


Side By Side of Ruger grip frames - the "Super Blackhawk" is the size of the Dragoon/Hunter grips
F-gripsquare3.jpg


Overlay of Ruger Grip Frames - again, "Super BLackhawk" = size of Dragoon and Hunter grip frames
Frames-ALL.jpg
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
This thread has been very eye opening. I really appreciate the detail in your post.

Thanks so much,
 

roylt

Hunter
Joined
Sep 21, 2010
Messages
3,100
One more thing. How does the dragoon feel? I have shot a hunter. Does the square back come close to your fingers or is there plenty of room?
 
Top