New guy needs help on Ruger 3 screw

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Guy_epic

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Ok I am new to the Ruger 3 screw, but I have built FAL's, AK's, & other projects. So I have a idea of what I am doing but I am stuck on this one. I bought a Ruger 3 screw Blackhawk that had never been converted in 357. I was going to send it in as I was able to get a good deal on it as the trigger parts had been pulled out to use on another pistol. I thought I had scored. So I bought for very cheap the conversion parts for Ruger in fact I saw them come out of a working pistol only difference is it was in 44 mag. I installed the parts and it half cocks just fine, but it only full cocks once in a while. And for some reason it tends to fully cock more often when held upside down? I know this sounds crazy, but I can't see where I went wrong on the install, everything fit fine. Could it be the 44 parts don't work? I could easily send it to Ruger for the transfer bar safety to be installed but the parts were way cheaper. Good news is I bought them from a friend who will take them back. Please any help or ideas would be great.

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Bob Wright

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Well, uh, without actually seeing what you have, difficult to diagnose.

If the gun won't cock, either the hammer is not coming back far enough, or the trigger spring is not exerting enough forward pressure on the trigger.

Now, as I understand it, you are putting in the conversion transfer bar system? Are you using the New Model type base pin? Could be the transfer bar is hitting the firing pin? This could account for cocking while upside down. This sounds like the most likely culprit.

The New Model base pin will have a spring loaded pin projecting through the rear of the gun's frame.

Bob Wright
 

Guy_epic

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Bob Wright said:
Well, uh, without actually seeing what you have, difficult to diagnose.

If the gun won't cock, either the hammer is not coming back far enough, or the trigger spring is not exerting enough forward pressure on the trigger.

Now, as I understand it, you are putting in the conversion transfer bar system? Are you using the New Model type base pin? Could be the transfer bar is hitting the firing pin? This could account for cocking while upside down. This sounds like the most likely culprit.

The New Model base pin will have a spring loaded pin projecting through the rear of the gun's frame.

Bob Wright

I am pretty sure it is a new model base pin but you know I was having issues with it going in all the way. I will try that thanks I have a idea what is wrong maybe. Time to check.
 

Guy_epic

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Ok it's definitely a issue with the base pin. The only thing I know is it is the one that came with the pistol. Is that to be changed out when a conversion kit is installed? I am frustrated as I feel like it is close but still not working please keep the help coming! Please
 

David LaPell

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Maybe if you could put up a picture of the base pin you have now, a clear picture where we can see it, we could tell you for sure if its a NM pin trying to work in an Old Model gun.
 

Bob Wright

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A New Model base pin, which is correct for the conversion also, will have a small pin protruding from the rear end, a Three Screw base pin is plain, slightly rounded or dome shaped at that point.

If the base pin is too short, or not seated correctly, the pin will not lift the transfer up to clear the fring pin protrusion and the transfer bar hangs under the firing pin. If this is the case, a new base pin is your solution, or maybe freeing up the protruding pin.

Bob Wright
 

Bob Wright

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Hold on a minute! Let me see if I understand what you've said so far:

1) You bought an unconverted Three Screw .357 Magnum


2) You bought conversion parts taken from a .44 Magnum Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk. What exactly did you get? Did you get the base pin from the .44 as well? If not, therin lies your problem, you need a New Model base pin.

3) Photos would be helpful.
Bob Wright
 

Guy_epic

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Bob Wright said:
Hold on a minute! Let me see if I understand what you've said so far:

1) You bought an unconverted Three Screw .357 Magnum


2) You bought conversion parts taken from a .44 Magnum Blackhawk/Super Blackhawk. What exactly did you get? Did you get the base pin from the .44 as well? If not, therin lies your problem, you need a New Model base pin.

3) Photos would be helpful.
Bob Wright

Ok I am pretty sure that answers my question as I bought everything minus the pin. I can try and take some pics but I am sure that the problem. So where can I get a converted base pin cheap?
 

Guy_epic

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And my pin has a point on it so I think it's a conversion one I am so frustrated as I also can't upload pics just a link but more on that later I just wanted to shoot tomorrow
 

DGW1949

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If you're trying to put .44 parts into a .357, you should know that you've got the wrong pawl, the wrong hammer, probably the wrong transfer bar, and that a .44 base pin is longer than a .357 base pin. I don't have the two "conversion" latches on hand to compare, so I don't know if they are the same or not....but.....what I'm getting at is that the frame sizes of the two revolvers are so different that you're gonna have to start over with the correct .357-specific parts.

DGW
 

Hondo44

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The 44 cyl pin is too long to lock into position in the old model mid-size frame. Just get the mid-size frame cyl pin; either the conversion pin or any caliber new model mid-size frame pin for a new Vaquero or the NM Flat top Blackhawk pin, they are the same. Not a pin for the new model standard Blackhwak 357; those are large frames the same size as the 44 Mag.

The correct pin has a little spring loaded tit sticking out the back end like the 44 conversion pin that you have.
 

DGW1949

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Hondo44 said:
The 44 cyl pin is too long to lock into position in the old model mid-size frame. Just get the mid-size frame cyl pin; either the conversion pin or any caliber new model mid-size frame pin for a new Vaquero or the NM Flat top Blackhawk pin, they are the same. Not a pin for the new model standard Blackhwak 357; those are large frames the same size as the 44 Mag.

The correct pin has a little spring loaded tit sticking out the back end like the 44 conversion pin that you have.

Hondo is correct about what he is telling you relative to the NM base pins.......but....you're still gonna need the correct OM 357 "conversion" pawl and hammer. The .44 parts that you have are wrong for your frame. And like I mentioned in my other post, I'm not even sure that the .44 latch is the same.

We aint just talking NM vs OM parts here, we're talking a whole 'nuther action design than either.
A set of .357 "conversion parts" don't cost much because few people want them.
If you don't mind a suggestion......why not put a WTB add in the Forum classifieds and see what happens?.....it'll probably save you a lot of grief.

DGW
 

Guy_epic

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DGW1949 said:
Hondo44 said:
The 44 cyl pin is too long to lock into position in the old model mid-size frame. Just get the mid-size frame cyl pin; either the conversion pin or any caliber new model mid-size frame pin for a new Vaquero or the NM Flat top Blackhawk pin, they are the same. Not a pin for the new model standard Blackhwak 357; those are large frames the same size as the 44 Mag.

The correct pin has a little spring loaded tit sticking out the back end like the 44 conversion pin that you have.

Hondo is correct about what he is telling you relative to the NM base pins.......but....you're still gonna need the correct OM 357 "conversion" pawl and hammer. The .44 parts that you have are wrong for your frame. And like I mentioned in my other post, I'm not even sure that the .44 latch is the same.

We aint just talking NM vs OM parts here, we're talking a whole 'nuther action design than either.
A set of .357 "conversion parts" don't cost much because few people want them.
If you don't mind a suggestion......why not put a WTB add in the Forum classifieds and see what happens?.....it'll probably save you a lot of grief.

DGW

I think that is what I am going to need to do. Can any one confirm exactly what I would need. I am sorry I thought I knew but I blew that thinking I was GTG with the parts I have.
 

David LaPell

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Guy_epic said:
DGW1949 said:
Hondo44 said:
The 44 cyl pin is too long to lock into position in the old model mid-size frame. Just get the mid-size frame cyl pin; either the conversion pin or any caliber new model mid-size frame pin for a new Vaquero or the NM Flat top Blackhawk pin, they are the same. Not a pin for the new model standard Blackhwak 357; those are large frames the same size as the 44 Mag.

The correct pin has a little spring loaded tit sticking out the back end like the 44 conversion pin that you have.

Hondo is correct about what he is telling you relative to the NM base pins.......but....you're still gonna need the correct OM 357 "conversion" pawl and hammer. The .44 parts that you have are wrong for your frame. And like I mentioned in my other post, I'm not even sure that the .44 latch is the same.

We aint just talking NM vs OM parts here, we're talking a whole 'nuther action design than either.
A set of .357 "conversion parts" don't cost much because few people want them.
If you don't mind a suggestion......why not put a WTB add in the Forum classifieds and see what happens?.....it'll probably save you a lot of grief.

DGW

I think that is what I am going to need to do. Can any one confirm exactly what I would need. I am sorry I thought I knew but I blew that thinking I was GTG with the parts I have.

One I think you need to post pictures so we can really get a look at what it is you actually need. I think in plain English by trying to put .44 parts in a .357 is like trying to stuff a .454 Chevy in a Mazda Miata. It will fit but it might not run right. Again, the pics will help us for sure.
 

Hondo44

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DGW is correct about the 44 vs. 357 conversion parts but the cyl latches are the same for all size guns including the 22.

However in "practice" the small differences in parts will usually not prevent proper and safe functioning except for the cyl pin. I think your experience bares that out. Even a correct 357 parts kit could need some fitting, that's why Ruger didn't just send out the conversion parts to gun owners.

If you can manually position the 44 cyl pin that you have now, correctly for the transfer bar not to catch on the firing pin in the hammer channel, and the gun cocks properly in shooting position (not just upside down), and cyl locks up properly, the right 357 pin is all you need.

Just FYI: You can file another small 1/2 moon notch in the 44 cyl pin to the rear of the existing one to hold it in the proper position to operate the gun temporarily until you locate the right pin, or a complete 357 conversion kit.

And here's some simple tests you can do to confirm the safety bar is functioning correctly and providing the safety it's designed for.

TEST HAMMER/TRANSFER BAR for the safety function:
At the range, load a live round under the hammer, point down range, cock the hammer, hold with thumb, release the trigger to uncock the hammer, take finger off trigger and release your thumb so the hammer falls. The round will not fire if safety transfer bar is functioning correctly.

TO TEST HAMMER/TRANSFER BAR for reliable ignition:
With (unloaded gun) hammer fully cocked, press on the transfer bar to extend the firing pin and observe how far thru the recoil shield it protrudes. Now drop the hammer, keep the trigger pulled back and observe the firing pin again. If it doesn't protrude the same amount, you may have misfires. Shoot it to determine reliability.

NOTE: If you call Ruger, they will often send you the part free. Also, there is no cost to return the gun to Ruger for the conversion installation. Call them 1st and they will send you a prepaid shipping order and box.

This the correct part at Brownells for $8:
http://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/action-parts/base-pin-parts/base-pin-assemblies/base-pin-assembly-sku780001276-44175-98121.aspx?sku=780001276
Hope that helps,
 

Guy_epic

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Yep ad placed and looks like I have parts heading my way thanks guys. I can stop pulling out my hair.
 

Guy_epic

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HAWKEYE#28 said:
AT THIS LATE STAGE, WHY IN HELL WOULD YOU PUT PARTS FOR A 44 IN A 357, AND, FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, WHY DID NOT SOMEONE ASK THAT IN THE 2ND OR THIRD POST/ JUST SAYIN'?, MY OPINION AND NO DESIRE FOR A DEBATE........ 8)

Umm I didn't know any better and most parts online that are Aftermarket say they go into both. So they looked the same except they were conversion parts and I didn't know any better. I also did some internet searches and didn't find a answer so I tried them and they went in easily minus the working part. Live and learn. I have read many places that many parts interchange my bad.
 

HAWKEYE#28

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:) Been there and done that, tho long long ago. My issue was basically not with your action(s) but with the manner in which this was debated and observed by others. The first correct premise being the difference in frame sizes and, accordingly, the need for different parts. Glad its fixed. 8)
 
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