Vaq hammer swap?

Hondo44 · Apr 12, 2014

Yes it will, and will also leave the long slot open.

You can see here that the SBH hammer is almost the same low profile as the Bisley:

The New Vaq hammer is not shown but it's longer and higher than the three shown.
The third one labeled 'stock' is the standard Old Vaq and the Blackhawk hammer and the most common.

FHBrumb · Apr 12, 2014

Thank you.

gak · Apr 17, 2014

(I mis-posted this in another thread (but it worked for somebody anyway)...was meant for here

There is another option some choose, though clearly not the OP...actually the reverse... putting the standard (stock) Vaquero/Blackhawk hammer in the New Vaquero. Like a lot of folks who have converted their NVs, I am not a devotee of the longhorn NV hammer, and so I equipped two of my three NVs with SBH hammers (a fourth, a Mantado, already came with a SBH profile hammer. The one unconverted regular NV is undecided/may yet be on the for sale list). I like the SBHs a lot functionally but one of the now converted NVs I've (almost) decided I want the more traditional "western/cowboy" looking hammer without going back to the overly (to me) long/high/backswept NV spur,...and have thought of reverting to the Vaquero/BH shorter spur as a decent compromise--and use the SBH on future project. This is an approach a lot have taken who can't abide the more extreme backsweep of the stock NV, but also don't want--or can't find--either the SBH or Bisley piece.

To me and a lot of others I've heard, the perfect hammer is the Colt SAA, which none of the Rugers seem to match exactly. One of those puzzlements. While Ruger was at it in 1956--and then over the next six decades--while emulating the SAA in most other ways (on the surface), why didn't they just adopt the Colt hammer?!

JimMarch1 · Apr 17, 2014

A few years back at a gun show in rural northern Arizona I got a chance to fondle a variety of classic SA wheelguns and compare them to my NewVaq which was (and still is) wearing an SBH hammer.

When I cock a single action I do so strong-side-thumb, when shooting one-handed or two. I want to put the tip of the hammer right into the joint in my thumb, dead smack on. That way I can fold my thumb over the hammer and push it down from above, rather than dragging the hammer down from below with friction on the middle area of my thumb-pad. I do not consider the latter a reliable method of cocking. On my gun the SBH hammer put the tip of the hammer exactly where I need it, on the joint, while doing my preferred pinkie-under hold.

A pair of post-WW2 Colt SAAs put the hammer's tip too high - up on the pad of my thumb. Two Uberties and a Pietta, same deal...as did my New Vaquero in stock form of course.

A bone-stock USFA Rodeo put it in the right place - at the joint. As did all three pre-WW2 Colt SAAs available for testing, including one with a black powder frame (pre-1895).

From this limited testing it appears to me that Uberti, Pietta and Ruger are cloning the hammer reach feel of the post-WW2 Colts. USFA cloned the pre-war feel. And then you graft an SBH hammer onto a NewVaq or other mid-frame Ruger, you get the pre-war feel as well. The result may not "look period correct" but in terms of functionality it is (surprisingly!) the SBH hammer that allows you to use shooting techniques correct to the Old West period including "thumb fully over hammer" as endorsed in writing by Bat Masterson, a former buffalo poacher (and criminal at Adobe Walls) who used to have in his employ while police chief in Dodge City Kansas one Wyatt Earp.

gak · Apr 17, 2014

JimMarch1 said:
A few years back at a gun show in rural northern Arizona I got a chance to fondle a variety of classic SA wheelguns and compare them to my NewVaq which was (and still is) wearing an SBH hammer.

When I cock a single action I do so strong-side-thumb, when shooting one-handed or two. I want to put the tip of the hammer right into the joint in my thumb, dead smack on. That way I can fold my thumb over the hammer and push it down from above, rather than dragging the hammer down from below with friction on the middle area of my thumb-pad. I do not consider the latter a reliable method of cocking. On my gun the SBH hammer put the tip of the hammer exactly where I need it, on the joint, while doing my preferred pinkie-under hold.

A pair of post-WW2 Colt SAAs put the hammer's tip too high - up on the pad of my thumb. Two Uberties and a Pietta, same deal...as did my New Vaquero in stock form of course.

A bone-stock USFA Rodeo put it in the right place - at the joint. As did all three pre-WW2 Colt SAAs available for testing, including one with a black powder frame (pre-1895).

From this limited testing it appears to me that Uberti, Pietta and Ruger are cloning the hammer reach feel of the post-WW2 Colts. USFA cloned the pre-war feel. And then you graft an SBH hammer onto a NewVaq or other mid-frame Ruger, you get the pre-war feel as well. The result may not "look period correct" but in terms of functionality it is (surprisingly!) the SBH hammer that allows you to use shooting techniques correct to the Old West period including "thumb fully over hammer" as endorsed in writing by Bat Masterson, a former buffalo poacher (and criminal at Adobe Walls) who used to have in his employ while police chief in Dodge City Kansas one Wyatt Earp.

You speak the truth. That said, the post war Colts--or at least my ca 2008 example and most 2nd Gens I've sampled--appear to me a lot better and more natural than the NV or V/BH hammers in overall feel, and oh so much better in reach than the NV. Although there are slight differences, I move between my Colt, USFA and Cimarron (Uberti) pretty seamlessly. Obvious grip and weight differences aside, blindfolded, can always tell when a Ruger--any Ruger--is in hand.

Hondo44 · Apr 17, 2014

Tx gunrunner, who also prefers the SBH height, makes it look traditional.

SBH hammer wide spur thinned on the right and bottom:

JimMarch1 · Apr 17, 2014

I had to do that on the left side of my SBH hammer so it wouldn't scrape my magazines on cocking.

Hondo44 · Apr 17, 2014

JimMarch1 said:
....Bat Masterson, a former buffalo poacher (and criminal at Adobe Walls) who used to have in his employ while police chief in Dodge City Kansas one Wyatt Earp.

We obviously know who Bat Masterson was and opinions are free speech. But we all clearly recognize that you're "trolling" on FHBrumb's thread, just because you want to advertise your bias against Masterson with your misinformed name calling. It's clear to everyone else that an animal with no hunting season or regulations pertaining to it is impossible to be poached.

Definition of a troll: "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Back to thread business, you need a bit more familiarity of Colt 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen, and USFA hammer heights to improve your perceptions. Because they are all the same albeit with the usual slight variances always associated with parts that are final hand finished/knurled by 100s of different employees over a span of 141 years. I have the hammer tracings of dozens of Colt's and/or USFA's hammers of all generations to prove it.

Hondo44 · Apr 17, 2014

JimMarch1 said:
I had to do that on the left side of my SBH hammer so it wouldn't scrape my magazines on cocking.

Still more trolling, I see.

JimMarch1 · Apr 17, 2014

I'm not trolling. I think Masterson absolutely knew how to shoot. But he had...issues, and not just poaching deep in treatied reservation territory although that was absolutely what was going on at Adobe Walls. Billy Dixon didn't shoot a "savage" off a horse, he shot a friggin' game warden!

Once in his retirement in a big city back east Bat's idea of earning extra cash on the side was to go to pawn shops, buy up the crappiest stuff he could lay hands on from the "old west period" and sell it soon after as "a genuine old west artifact owned by none other than Bat Masterson!!!"

He was...a character.

As to the measurements I took of the guns I had access to that day: I am pretty good at obtaining the same hold on each of the very similar guns involved. I checked alignment between the topstrap and my forearm bones from above to make sure I was at the same place. I stand by my observations.

gak · Apr 18, 2014

Hondo44 said:
Tx gunrunner, who also prefers the SBH height, makes it look traditional.
SBH hammer wide spur thinned on the right and bottom:

Hondo, I like Tx's mods! Something to think about. May be best of all (Ruger) worlds? I do like the stock SBH width for some applications and will likely be keeping them unmodified on at least a few guns--perhaps my Montado (and Montado'd Sheriff) shorty as it already makes for an especially useful/practical, specialty camping/carry piece...Bowen btw pretty accurarely foretold with his near-identical "Combat Vaquero" concept. For others like my standard NVs, the more traditional look/feel would be nice. I do like that SBH proifile and would like to convert all my Rugers eventually.

Vaq hammer swap?

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