gemini customs porting...

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Joe S.

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Feb 4, 2011
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just was on their site.

can someone explain the porting method they use? the ports they put in the top of the barrels seem counter productive. like you would lose velocity due to them. now i am no gunsmith or physicist (heck i cant even spell it. lol) but it just seems to me that if you start losing gas that soon that you start losing velocity as well.

am i way off here? i know i probably am. what is the benefit?
 

hittman

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I never understood the real need for porting at all.

Try to sell a used gun that's ported. You'll really, really limit your market of potential buyers.
 

Joe S.

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I tend to shy away from ported guns for carry, due to the flash potential at night. Altho I've never shot one at night I have heard it can be blinding. Passed on a really good deal on a 1911 because it was ported.

Most I've seen have been at the front of the barrel. Not all the way down the barrel
 

98Redline

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I would assume you would loose some velocity but for a personal defense gun, what kind of velocity do you really need for a <5 yard encounter?

I think that what they mainly purport is that the porting reduces muzzle flip and thus makes follow up shots faster. To that I agree to some extent, however with my 3" SP-101, the muzzle flash is pretty hellacious all by itself. I can't even imagine what it would be like if half of it was directed straight up in front of me.

If I need less muzzle flip, then I will go with 38sp ammo as opposed to a full house .357s
 

REP1954

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Jul 21, 2008
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I have had a few guns ported in the 70's and they were Magna Ported one was 41 Mag Blackhawk and the other was a SBH didnt really see much use for it on these guns and never had any done again. We did some of the guys guns at work on the EDM machine by copying Magna Ports process. Again no big excitment. So after the years past I had read a article and test on a SP101 I believe it was that was tuned and ported by Gemini Customs and they made it sound pretty impressive. I had a S&W Model 642 that really needed a tuned. I tried Wolff springs in it and didnt trust the reliability even though I never had a miss fire with it the feeling was that it was just on the edge and I put the OEM springs back in it. I sent the gun to Gemini Custom for the package he had on his website and got the gun back in 9 days. The guns action was tuned and polished, the 3 ports on top the barrel were added, and he polished the trigger bright. I was very impressed with 158 lead +P loads it just stayed on target so well and you could shoot a box of 50 without having the rubber grips make your plam all raw. I'm sure the excellent tune made alot of difference. This is a 16 ounce gun and the first I ever seen porting make a positive effect on. Muzzle flash might have increased but not all that much as the gun already has plenty with +P loads anyway. It now belongs to my buddy's wife and she used it to obtain her CCW with it.
 

no5shooter

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May 14, 2010
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FWIW, I used to have a 4" S&W .41 Mag with Magna Ports, and I loved it. Everything I have read indicates the gun writers think there is a perceptible difference in recoil and/or muzzle flip, but I really think everybody is going to have his own opinion (gun writer or not). I personally would not hesitate to buy a ported gun if I liked the rest of the deal, and I certainly won't say I would never have the job done. I like what I have seen of Gemini's packages that include the ports, and I'm sort of rolling the idea around in the back of my mind with regard to either a Smith J-frame or a SP-101.

There, an opinion, and worth just what you paid. As they say, your mileage may vary...
 

cruzerlou

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Joe S. said:
I tend to shy away from ported guns for carry, due to the flash potential at night. Altho I've never shot one at night I have heard it can be blinding. Passed on a really good deal on a 1911 because it was ported.

Most I've seen have been at the front of the barrel. Not all the way down the barrel

I had a 2 1/2" Rossi 971 VRC [ventalted rib companced ] .357 Mag ,it wasa copy of an S&W M-64?[ajustable sights ] and yes it would BLIND you at night but even with full house 125gr sjhp's ,felt recoil was no worse than my 4" bull bbl S&W M-10 with 158gr -P's .So theres good and bad with porting .I think Mag-Ma-Port states that you loose 75fps with there porting .I don't like porting on a fighting gun my way of thinking is you can learn to handle recoil ,but once tou've been blinded by flash your screwed ,My 7 1/2 " SBH has been Mag-Ma-Ported and it does make it more managable espeicaily with my heavy huntung load ,a 300gr XPT over 23.grs of H-110 .
One bad thing about porting a hunting handgun is you can't shoot cast bullets out of it because you'll lead up the vents
Thats my 2 cents ,
Lou
 

Joe S.

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Lou,
I've had several dan wessons and that was one thing that was made clear to me was no lead bullets thru the ones with ports.

I'll be getting my 444p marlin soon and I'm thinking it needs the port holes leaded up in it so I may shoot some lead thru it just to stop em up. Lol

Don't think I've ever been so excited about getting a gun. :D
 

REP1954

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Jul 21, 2008
Messages
959
The porting on the 642 does get pretty dirty and picks up some leading but nothing that cleans up any harder than what picks up on the cylinder face and front edge. Might be because the velocity is much lower than what big bore hunting loads are.
 

cruzerlou

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As far as hard cast bullets go I figure that the Hornaday 300 gr XPT over 23.4 grs of H 110 will handle anything I'm gonna hunt here in Va ,any deer for sure ,any ferrel hog [we don't have many yet] and any black bear .The 300 gr XPT is one tough bullet and is designed for hunting .If I was going out west to hunt grizz, with a handgun ,you can bet it would be one of the big mags like the .480 or S&W 500 anyway so I'm not worried about not being able to shoot cast bullert in my Mag-Na-Ported SBH .
Lou
P.S. Joe I've never shot one ,but I hear that the .444 Marlin is a real thumper on both ends ,but I bet it's a blast to shoot .[pun intended]LOL
 

Flash

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I had an SP101 customized by Weigand Combat, which is where the pistolsmith from Gemini Customs came from. It was an early 38 special and although I didn't shoot it at night, I shot it often in daylight and with any ammunition, the muzzle jump was absolutely zero. I also posted some velocity measurements here from the 38 and the same ammunition in an unported 357. The velocity loss was negligible.
 

Joe S.

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Cool thanks!

Lou, the 444 is my favorite round all deer taken in the last two years has been with that caliber in various guns. Love em!
 

JumpmasterC

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The free state of Arizona...finally!
I had this done not long after I got it. I do feel like follow up shots can be made quicker, as the barrel doesn't jump as much. The ports direct the sound waves to the sides & will quickly clear out the lanes next to you at the range. To the firer--no changes in sound is much noticed. I like em'....the only thing that I don't care for is that now I can't throw snake-shot in it when I go to the ranch.
camdownload910051.jpg
 

Airedale

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I realize that this is an older thread, but I stumbled across it and couldn't resist adding my $0.02 worth.

In 1993 I walked into the Wal-Mart in Kenai, Alaska, and walked out a little while later with a Ruger SP 101 in .357 Mag after surrendering the Princely sum of $299.00 (no sales tax in AK in those days) for the gun and a few dollars more for a box of Federal 125 gr. JHP's, which according to Evan Marshall were the #1 man-stoppers bar none.

I took the little gun out to Nikiski, where we were running a fab shop and putting together spool pieces to rebuild the Granite Point platform out in the Gulf, which had suffered a fire the year before. When I got there I went to the back of the yard, loaded it up, and fired five rounds, which resulted in temporary deafness, a bleeding hole from hammer bite, and a marked reluctance to fire another round out of the kicking little pig until it had been modified in some fashion or other.

In those days Mr. Jack Weigand was running little ads in the backs of most of the gun rags that I subscribed to touting his "Tame the Beast" conversions on S&W J-frames and Ruger SP-101's, which included the Hybra-porting, bobbing the hammer and rendering the revolver DAO (if desired), polishing and smoothing all internal parts, bead-blasting the exterior, mirror-polishing the trigger and hammer, regulating the sights for the Federal 125 gr. JHP, removing cylinder end-shake (if necessary), and swapping the little old hard-rubber boot grips that the factory installed for a set of Hogues that a man could actually wrap four fingers around.

I called Mr. Jack, who had his shop in PA at the time, to try to figure out whether the work was worthwhile, and a few minutes into the conversation I asked him something like,

"This little gun only has an 2-1/4" barrel; is the porting going to work well enough to be worth doing?'

Five minutes later he paused for breath, which was fine, because he lost me somewhere around the second minute, when he was deep into an explanation of why the holes in the top were differently-sized conics, emulating the nozzles on a rocket (and necessitating the EDM machining as opposed to simply using a drill bit) and how those were tuned to the expansion ratio of the propellent gasses, and how the dwell time of the bullet in the barrel created a seal that ensured that the porting had maximum effect, as well as a lot of other stuff that I either understood poorly or not at all, but by the time that he stopped I understood that it would work, at least according to him, and I was intrigued enough to ask him if I could send him the revolver.

He gave me the shipping address, I packaged up the pistol, surrendered it to the guy who drove the Little Brown Truck, and forgot about it, figuring that, like most pistolsmiths, he'd have it for the next six or nine months, and I was astonished when UPS handed it back to me two weeks later with all of the work completed.

I took it out back, stuffed five rounds into the cylinder (and plugs into my ears) and fired it at a stump, and I was absolutely astonished at the result; there was no appreciable muzzle rise as far as I could tell, and while it wasn't as slick as my Model 19, it wasn't very far off, which I would never have believed possible (no offense to Ruger, but at that time I thought that nothing could come close to the double-action on a tuned K-frame).

When that job ended I took the little gun back home to Arizona and showed it off to one of my buddies who was hell on high red wheels with a revolver (or any other firearm for that matter) and I filmed him running a plate rack with it to confirm my suspicion that the muzzle didn't rise; Victor would run that plate rack in a second or so, and it looked as though he was shooting .22 shorts instead of full-house .357's.

I carried that little pistol in Galco leather behind my right hip for 9 years, and if I had pants on that gun was normally there, balancing out my Leatherman tool on the left side, and I used to to pot cottontails, as a trapline kill gun, to shoot the occasional cow or horse that needed to be put down, and for anything else that I needed a medium-bore handgun for, and I never got tired of handing it to someone to try out who wasn't shy about telling me that they wouldn't own a .357 snubby if someone gave them one because they were so unpleasant to shoot.

And then one night while I was parked at the local honky-tonk someone or other decided to inventory the contents of my truck and remove my high-lift jack, my tool box, and my SP-101, which hurt my feelings; they probably had to scoot one of my Airedales out of the way in order to reach under the seat and find the gun, which led me to believe that it was someone who knew both me and my dogs, although I had to leave go of that idea pretty quickly, because it caused me to lose sleep and think bad thoughts, and not even that revolver was worth that kind of aggravation.

I knew that I needed to replace it, though, so I began to rummage around through the gun rags, looking for Mr. Jack, and I was horrified to discover that he had given up converting revolvers, and that I couldn't replace it unless I could find one used, and no one in their right minds would offer to sell one if they were fortunate enough to have one, so I was confronted with the reality that I would have to find some substitute or other, which was a little bit like phantom limb syndrome for quite a while, although a 2" Model 19 tried to fill the hole, among other handguns.

So years went by, and my SP-101 joined that list that everyone has, and adds to as they get older, alongside of good dogs and horses and girlfriends and guns and other things that got lost along the way, and even though you never really make peace with the idea that they won't come around again time heals all wounds, or at least blurs the memories to some degree, although as Websites like Guns America and GunBroker became larger and more popular I'd still run a search for "Weigand" or "Tame the Beast" now and then, just in case someone was crazy enough or desperate enough to put one up for sale.

And then one day I happened to glance at a magazine rack and see a full-color cover with "Gemini Customs" emblazoned across the top of a picture of something that looked remarkably like a Weigand-modified and ported revolver, and when I bought it and dug inside I discovered that Marc Morganti had licensed the Hybra-port process from Mr. Jack and was producing SP-101's just like the old "Tame the Beast" packages, with the added attraction of machining the cylinder to accept moon clips.

And you can bet that I didn't waste much time calling up Marc and arranging to ship him an SP-101, and when it was returned (and quickly) it was a carbon copy of my old Weigand-modified revolver; just as slick an action, and just as effective in eliminating muzzle rise, and just as good at converting doubters once they fired a cylinder or two.

I have several handguns that have some sort of muzzle brake or Magna-porting or compensator attached or installed or machined, but none of them come come anywhere close to the Hybra-porting process, at least in my subjective opinion. And my Gemini Customs SP-101 is riding once more in the Galco Speed Master holster that carried my first one.

I recently picked up an Alaskan in .454 to keep my Freedom Arms company, and as soon as I can find a few spare minutes I'll box that up and ship it to Marc to be Hybridized as well; I'm not particularly recoil-shy, but those full-house 300 gr. flatnoses out of my 4-3/4" Freedom Arms (which came Magna-ported from the factory) recoil pretty sharply, and I'm eaten up with curiousness to see what will happen when I shoot them in a Hybra-ported gun.

Not to mention that the two of them ought to make an interesting pair; sort of a Big Brother/Little Brother combo, and even though I can't really convince myself that there is any really legitimate reason to to have a .454 that is capable of rapid double-action fire with full-house loads it ought to make a heck of a conversation piece if nothing else, and if a bear ever takes it into his head to try to run down my throat I would think that I might be able to persuade him to cease and desist with a revolver like that, although every bear that I've ever shot with those loads in that single-action fell down so fast that I would have missed them with a quick second shot anyhow.

But I guess that's why someone coined the term gun "nut," huh?

Airedale
 
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Airedale! Holy cow. I was just going to say the same thing. What a great first post. You write the way people read in a natural sort of conversational way.
 

TinkerDave

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New Hampshire
If you think about it, the bullet is out of the barrel before the gasses have a chance to start evacuating.-just like the cylinder gap allows some leakage. Neither is enough to compromise the effectiveness of the bullet's velocity. TD
 
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