RNVB-445-SPL Lipsey's Bisley 44 Specials

Why are these listed as Vaqueros on the Ruger site? Is it because they are based on the New Vaquero frame?

If I was going to catalog these, I would think they would be Blackhawks.......But what do I know. They are making me think about coming over to the dark side though.

I'm confused by your post. As far as I know these are Lipsey exclusives and are not listed on the Ruger site. Regards, Dennis

PS I have the 4 5/8" Lipsey Bisley .44 special and it is amazing!

They are listed under Single Action - Vaquero - Distributor Exclusives on the Ruger website, and here is the link to copy and paste into your browser:


http://www.ruger.com/products/vaqueroDE/models.html

Be careful on the model Cat# designations between the 5.5" and 4.62" barrels, believe the model number is correct.

Think the 4.62" should be CAT# RNVB-444-SPL

Click on the "Spec Sheet" and you'll see a detail of each gun

Hope this helps you out.

hutchman said:

Why are these listed as Vaqueros on the Ruger site? Is it because they are based on the New Vaquero frame?

Click to expand...

Good observation. I don't know the answer but the question is interesting.

Dave

A better question might be, "Why aren't they listed as NEW Vaqueros?".

It's as if Ruger is TRYING to get somebody blown up.

Pete

That KNV-44X-c is my favorite of the bunch. Is it a lock gun? Just wish it had something on the handle but those butt-ugly black cheesegraters! Even the rosewood would be better!

hutchman said:

Why are these listed as Vaqueros on the Ruger site? Is it because they are based on the New Vaquero frame?

If I was going to catalog these, I would think they would be Blackhawks.......But what do I know. They are making me think about coming over to the dark side though.

Click to expand...

RNVP-445-SPL

R = Ruger
NV = new medium frame size (Vaq or FT Blkhk)
B = Bisley
44 = 44 caliber
5 = 5 1/2" barrel
SPL = Special


My Lipsey's Blackhawk 44 FT w/ 4.62" barrel in blue with plow handle grip and lock is" NVB -444 - SPCL.

NVB = new medium frame size (Vaq or FT Blkhk)
44 = 44 cal
4 = 4 5/8"
SPC = Special
L = Lock

Except I think the L is for lock. It should not be used with the bisley as they have no lock. The L is missing from the Blackhawk model number and is attached to the bisley model number. They are backwards , Check the catalog.

They made a misprint.
http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkBlued/models.html

R=Bisley (Bisley grip frame)
NV= New Vaquero (new smaller frame)
B= blackhawk (adjustable sights)
44=.429 caliber
4= 4" (4.625" actual)
SP= Special (As in .44 Special)
L= Lock (used on all blackhawks that have the internal lock)

DLM said:

Except I think the L is for lock. It should not be used with the bisley as they have no lock. The L is missing from the Blackhawk model number and is attached to the bisley model number. They are backwards , Check the catalog.

They made a misprint.
http://www.ruger.com/products/newModelBlackhawkBlued/models.html

R=Bisley (Bisley grip frame)
NV= New Vaquero (new smaller frame)
B= blackhawk (adjustable sights)
44=.429 caliber
4= 4" (4.625" actual)
SP= Special (As in .44 Special)
L= Lock (used on all blackhawks that have the internal lock)

Click to expand...

Confusion reigns on this subject. The "SPL" of the catalog number is the abbreviation for "Special". All New Vaqueros, blue or stainless have the internal lock except for the Bisley models.

Ruger goofed up the catalog number designations when they started designating the flattops in 2005 with the 50th Anniversary .357, giving them an NVB prefix. To me, the NV of it means its a New Vaquero...but they're not, they're flattop Blackhawks.
So Rugers "RNVB44-SPL" catalog number is the abbreviation for a Bisley flattop Blackhawk in .44 Special (an NVB designation is for a non-Bisley model). When Ruger printed the 2010 catalog they didn't even have a picture of the flattop Blackhawk in .44 Special (non-Bisley's only), so nobody even knew it was a flattop. But they did make a misprint on one of the barrel lengths in that catalog...calling the 5-1/2" a 6-1/2" if I remember correctly.

Chet15

Chet15,
There seem to be typos in every catalog. I remember when Ruger listed the 1st fixed sight .22s. The cat only listed them with 5 1/2 & 6 1/2 barrel lengths but the picture was of a 4 5/8" barrel.

So I went shopping figuring there must be some 'out there' if they had a photo, and sure enough, found one and bought it! I bought two SS .22s with 4 5/8" barrels the same way although they weren't catalogued either in '73 and '76, the years mine were made.

Hondo44 said:

Chet15,
There seem to typos in every catalog. I remember when Ruger listed the 1st fixed sight .22s. The cat only listed them with 5 1/2 & 6 1/2 barrel lengths but the picture was of a 4 5/8" barrel.

Click to expand...

I remember that. The pic of that 4-5/8" gun made quite a splash with collectors. Ruger never did make too many of those (from off lengths of .22 cal barrel stock) in the first years. And even now, the model is still uncataloged but they keep dribbling a few out to distributors every now and then.
Chet15

Hondo44 said:

Chet15,
There seem to typos in every catalog. I remember when Ruger listed the 1st fixed sight .22s. The cat only listed them with 5 1/2 & 6 1/2 barrel lengths but the picture was of a 4 5/8" barrel.

So I went shopping figuring there must be some 'out there' if they had a photo, and sure enough, found one and bought it! I bought two SS .22s with 4 5/8" barrels the same way although they weren't catalogged either in '73 and '76, the years mine were made.

Click to expand...

As is my 4-5/8" manufactured in 1976 200th year. I didn't realize it until now. Thank you.

I don't have any New Vaquero's but the designation on my Vaquero's are as follows:

KBNVBH-34 Stainless Birds head .357mag 4 5/8"
BNV-455 Faux CCH Plow handle .45colt 5 1/2"
KBNV-453-SI Stainless Plow handle Scrimshaw Ivory .45colt 3 3/4"
KBNVBH-454 Stainless Birds head .45colt 4 5/8"
KRBNV-455-I Stainless Bisley Ivory .45colt 5 1/2"
Notice each has a "B" so I don't believe it stands for adjustable sight. Blackhawk size frame maybe.

Dana

What I never understood was why Ruger stamped the .44 Special frames "Vaquero" when the pistols were New Vaqueros.

Best Regards,
ADP3

ADP3 said:

What I never understood was why Ruger stamped the .44 Special frames "Vaquero" when the pistols were New Vaqueros.

Best Regards,
ADP3

Click to expand...

This has been debated many times.

Let's clarify the 44 Spl marked just "Vaquero":

It may seem strange until one understands that for a model to be marked a "New" whatever, there had to be a predecessor of that model. In other words all the New Vaqueros are in calibers that existed in the original predecessor model like .357, 45, or 44 Mag. But what was the predecessor for the 44 Spl? There wasn't any! It's the first in that caliber. Therefore it can't be a "new" version of anything even though it has the RIP System, it's an original model in 44 Spl cal introduced with the RIPS, hence it's just a "Vaquero" and marked as such.

Ruger's logic is also consistent with the "Single Ten", "Single Nine", Single Seven, etc. These are what we all consider New Models because of the transfer bar action, but none of them are stamped "New Model" on their frames because they are ORIGINAL MODELS, not NEW MODELS of Old Model 3 screw six shot cylinder Single Sixes.

The 32 H&R Single Six with transfer bar is stamped New Model because just like the New Model .22 six shot Single Sixes, it is a new transfer bar updated version of a previous Old Model single six.


Ruger's more recently released Talo/Lipseys exclusive .44 Mag large frame stamped "New Vaquero" is "New" because it has the Reverse Indexing Pawl System of the "New Vaquero" and the 44 Spl "Vaquero", but 44 Mag was built in the original Vaquero. None of the original large frame "Vaqueros" has that system.

Look at the 3" 44 magnum in the classified section now. The frame marked "New Vaquero" which would be a medium frame, but gun is chambered in 44 magnum with no mention if it has a Xr3 grip frame. This would differ from the ones marked "Vaquero" in 44 magnum in that those 44 magnums have the large frame with the Xr3-RED grip frame attached.

All .44Mag Single Action revolvers are on the large frame regardless of what is stamped on them. Ruger does make it confusing for the casual user....

All New Vaqueros are not medium frame and Rclark above is correct about the 44 Mag. So far it's the only large frame New Vaquero.

And recognize that the frame size does not make them New Vaqueros. The Reverse Indexing Pawl System is what makes them New Vaqueros; that's the "improvement" over the original Vaqueros for loading/unloading because chambers align with the loading channel at the sound of the click (like the Old Models).

All New Vaqueros do have the old model pre 1962 XR3 'SIZE' grip frames but they are only 7/16" wide instead of the usual 1/2" of all other grip frames.

The 44 Mag NV you mention here: http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=281829

It's a limited edition just for Talo and has non-standard features like the low wide SBH hammer and 3 3/4" barrel length. All 44 Mag NVs so far are distributor exclusive models so far of which there are 3 that I know of. The 44 Mag is not a regular production model yet, if ever.


Here's the first:




Here's another:

The Reverse Indexing Pawl System is what makes them New Vaqueros

Click to expand...

Seems to me my 'Vaquero' .44 Special has the new indexing system... Not marked 'New Vaquero'.... :roll: . Ie. The Reverse Indexing Pawl isn't the whole story as you alluded to in a previous post! Again confusing if you don't have an 'in' with the company.

The New Vaquero has the smaller cylinder frame. That is the biggest difference and the reason Ruger calls it an entirely different series, regardless of how Ruger rollmarked them, because they have been in error with their rollmarks. The entire gun starts with the cylinder frame, and its just parts after that.
Here's the other difference. Prefixes 55 through 59 are the old style Vaquero on the large frame. Prefixes 510 through 513 are the New Vaquero mid frame.
Chet15