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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:16 pm 
Hunter
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I've seen some posts concerning what the trigger pull should be on a pistol that will be mainly carried for self defense. How low will you go / should you go? If you use this gun for the range on occasion, do you want the trigger lighter than it should be for SD, just to get a better target?

My feeling is an actual self defense gun with 5 to 6 pound trigger pull is pretty light and should be carried only with a positive safety that will be always on. I own some guns that would be considered SD weapons only and the triggers are far stronger than my range guns (although most of my range guns are combat guns) and I will keep them that way, does anyone think I'm wrong on this?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:25 pm 
Hawkeye
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You are exactly right and don't let anyone tell you different. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:21 pm 
Hunter

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What do you consider a proper pull weight to be for a SD gun? The triggers on my guns are all stock and have been measured in the 5-6 lb range with a digital pull gauge. 1911s, Glock, P93(SA, DA@11lbs)

All of my shooting since I got seriously interested in handguns is with finger outside of trigger guard until the trigger is to be pulled. All accuracy shooting and self defense drills use this protocol. I expect this training will be automatic in a self defense situation. A heavy pull is to hopefully prevent a negligent discharge right? So hopefully will training to only touch the trigger when the intent is to fire immediately. Is this training incorrect?

You're not a fan of Glocks then?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:31 pm 
Blackhawk

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No matter light or heavy. I just want to hear bang when I pull it.
I don't need no stinking safety.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:48 pm 
Hawkeye
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"I expect this training will be automatic in a self defense situation."

ArmedinAZ, I sure hope so, but don't count on it. Been there, done that...failed.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:23 pm 
Hunter
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ArmedinAZ wrote:
What do you consider a proper pull weight to be for a SD gun? The triggers on my guns are all stock and have been measured in the 5-6 lb range with a digital pull gauge. 1911s, Glock, P93(SA, DA@11lbs)

All of my shooting since I got seriously interested in handguns is with finger outside of trigger guard until the trigger is to be pulled. All accuracy shooting and self defense drills use this protocol. I expect this training will be automatic in a self defense situation. A heavy pull is to hopefully prevent a negligent discharge right? So hopefully will training to only touch the trigger when the intent is to fire immediately. Is this training incorrect?

You're not a fan of Glocks then?


I haven't seen many Glocks with a stock 5 pound trigger pull, maybe Plaxico got one though, not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUwWhd3 ... re=related

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:44 am 
Hawkeye
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Cheesewhiz wrote:
I've seen some posts concerning what the trigger pull should be on a pistol that will be mainly carried for self defense. How low will you go / should you go?


I won't go an ounce lower than what the gun came with RIGHT FROM THE FACTORY, UNMODIFIED. If a trigger is too heavy in a potential carry gun, then I'll get a different carry gun. Period.

For the range, especially with a 1911, 3 pounds. Period. And the trigger better break like a glass toothpick :D.

The only trigger I'll ever modify (or have modified) is a 1911 trigger. If a gun has a bad trigger, I don't buy it. I've never had a problem or a need to modify the trigger on a revolver, since I primarily shoot even DA revolvers in SA mode. If I want to shoot a revolver DA, I'll use one of my Pythons.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:58 am 
Hunter

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:53 pm
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Location: over the hill from Preskitt
Cheesewhiz wrote:

I haven't seen many Glocks with a stock 5 pound trigger pull, maybe Plaxico got one though, not sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUwWhd3 ... re=related


You're right, I haven't had a chance to measure the Glock pull yet. Figured around 6 lbs based on the pull of some other triggers I have measured. I'd think a person would want only 1 dedicated carry weapon and if you have more the triggers should have very similar trigger pulls.

Cholo, if you don't mind, and without going into details you'd rather not, what failed in your SD experience?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:56 am 
Hawkeye
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Hey Armed,

I think the standard Glock trigger is advertised at 7 pounds, and the widely used trigger kit that is available takes it down to 4.5. I could be off by a pound or so on these measurements, but I think that's what I remember.

My G26's standard pull is perfect for carry as far as I'm concerned ... not scary and not gritty or too heavy.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:48 am 
Hunter

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:53 pm
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Location: over the hill from Preskitt
revhigh wrote:
Hey Armed,

I think the standard Glock trigger is advertised at 7 pounds, and the widely used trigger kit that is available takes it down to 4.5. I could be off by a pound or so on these measurements, but I think that's what I remember.

My G26's standard pull is perfect for carry as far as I'm concerned ... not scary and not gritty or too heavy.

REV


From Glock's website:

TRIGGER PULL
2.5 kg / 5.5 lbs.
TRIGGER TRAVEL
12.5 mm / 0.5 in.

I'll get the gauge and check it now I'm curious.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:55 am 
Hawkeye
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If that's what Glock says, then I'm sure THAT'S the right number :D. I thought it was a little higher than that ... maybe that's why I like it so much LOL.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:21 am 
Hunter

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:01 am
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At one time I had the 19# spring in my P-944. I took it out & went back to stock both because of the legal ramifications & I decided I didn't like how it felt anymore. The single action trigger had gotten to where it felt sloppy after the gun got broke in.
I have shot a friends Glock that he carries. The trigger on this gun he said was sat at 2.5 pounds. It was really nice to shoot but I would not want to be using that gun in a defensive situation. To the best of my knowledge every gun I own has a stock trigger. I'm not sure about my old .357 revolver as I got it out of a pawn shop years ago & it was well worn when I bought it. The DA trigger on it is really smooth though.
Armed has me wishing I had a pull gauge.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:48 pm 
Hawkeye
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"Cholo, if you don't mind, and without going into details you'd rather not, what failed in your SD experience?" ArmedinAZ

It was a relatively minor incident, but I learned a valuable lesson:

I looked out my back door to see an un-neutered male English Mastiff, maybe 225#'s, sniffing all over my 55# spayed female Black Lab. She was frozen in fear. I tried to shoe it away with words and clapping my hands when it aggressively charged me. It almost got a big piece of me and it sure didn't want a belly rub! I grabbed my 1911 I kept cocked and locked over my computer and went to the back to make sure my dog was ok. This was a viscious animal intent on inflicting serious harm to anybody he came across.

Right then I heard blood curdling screams from my next door neighbor. I ran out the front door just in time to see Mark, who was as round as he was tall, leap into the bed of his 4x4 like a gymnast. The dog was frothing at the mouth clawing to get at him again. It looked like Cujo X4 :shock: The dog had bitten him on his inside leg close to his jewels. My .45 was at my side when I asked him if he wanted me to take care of that dog if he felt it was going to make it into the truck bed. He asked if I had pepper and I said no and showed him the .45 that was at my side.

Long story short :wink: He knew the dog's owner and called her from his cell. I waited till she showed up about 10 minutes later and she got control of the dog who had been circling his truck.

I know safe gun handling, don't point it at anything you don't intend to shoot, keep your finger out of the trigger guard till you're ready to shoot etc. I've done it flawlessly for almost 40 years. Everything was fine as I grabbed the gun and went to the back door to make sure my dog was ok. When Mark sreamed I knew the dog had attacked him and there was a very good probability that it was not going to be a pretty sight if he didn't find the cover of his PU bed. I also knew I'd have to react quickly if necessary.

I kept my cool but don't even remember flicking the safety off as I ran thru my house from the back door to the front. It dawned on me when I saw him leap into his truck bed that apparently when I flicked the safety off, my finger was in the trigger guard...resting on the trigger. Even though my neighbor had been attacked by a very large dog, the safety should have stayed on and my finger should have been outside the trigger guard. Hey, at least I kept it pointed in a safe direction.

These things happen so fast I hope y'all remember everything you've been taught and practiced. I wonder how many of you would have done it like I did (finger on the trigger) under similar circumstances? Maybe it was one of your kids that screamed while being attacked. It's easy to sit in front of a keyboard or at the range and say you'd do (blank) under (blank) circumstances, but until it happens to you...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:06 pm 
Hawkeye
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"Finger off the trigger" seems to be a relatively recent no-no in the canon of safe gun handling. Oh, it's always been in the "10 Safety Rules" but wasn't emphasized as much as, say, keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

When I learned to shoot in the military in the early '70s, bad muzzle discipline would get you a chewing-out every time, but I can't recall anyone ever getting reamed over having their finger on the trigger.

In the old days, if a gun rag ran a pic of someone aiming the gun right at the camera, they'd get nasty letters about it. Later, they'd get letters if they showed someone shooting without ear or eye protection. In the last decade, they get letters if they run a pic of someone with their finger on the trigger if they're not obviously actually shooting.

I also notice that on TV and in the movies, the heroes and even the bad guys are keeping their fingers off the triggers until they're actually shooting. You didn't see this as recently as a decade ago. (I can't recall seeing "Dirty Harry" with his finger outside the trigger guard, can you?)

Many of us grew up shooting cap pistols, water guns, etc. Did we keep our fingers off the triggers of those toys back in the '40s, '50s, '60s, and '70s? Of course we didn't. No one trained us to.

What I'm sayin' is that for many of us, it requires a conscious act of will to keep our fingers off those triggers. Yes, we're SUPPOSED to be doing it--you get no argument from me on that. I'm just saying that, as Cholo so honestly pointed out, sometimes we're not as good as we should be about it. :oops: Maybe the newer generations of shooters, with new traditions and new examples, will find it easier.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:20 pm 
Blackhawk

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I am 52 years old have been shooting since I was 10 years old. No finger on the trigger until you want and expect to hear the bang has always been the rule for me and those I have taught.

A safety on a handgun is to make someone comfortable for bad gun handling habits and that is why I have such a disdain for them.

tk


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