Speed (Combat) reloading

gramps said:

s4s4u said:

Yawn said:

Aft... would rather not point a gun at my body to load it

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Huh? Why would you have to point a gun at your body to load it with bullets in the mag facing forward?

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Because to put the mag in correctly, from our point of view, that is how you would have to orient the gun. With bullets facing aft no manipulation, the mag goes right in properly with the gun pointed down range.
gramps

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Hmm, I guess it's all in the point of view. I don't experience such an issue with bullets forward.

s4s4u said:

Because to put the mag in correctly, from our point of view, that is how you would have to orient the gun. With bullets facing aft no manipulation, the mag goes right in properly with the gun pointed down range.
gramps

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Hmm, I guess it's all in the point of view. I don't experience such an issue with bullets forward.[/quote]

It sort of like the fallacy that if you carry cross you will sweep yourself or the entire countryside every time you draw. Some folks just can't picture things as they actually are.

Really, either way you don't twist the gun.. in fact in the scenario described (combat shooting) if doing it absolutely correct you would not drop your weapon's point of aim but just drop the mag from the gun and insert a fresh magazine with out moving the sights of the gun from the target. If you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical, but for some reason I know I'm wrong and forward is actually easier and better. It maybe because of the other item I mentioned which is 'indexing' the top round in the spare mag to make sure it is seated right as you move it toward the mag well.

I think folks are thinking that one is flipping the magazine but in reality once you grab it you are actually twisting your wrist to get it lined up right and rounds facing forward is actually easier. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

blume357 said:

Really, either way you don't twist the gun.. in fact in the scenario described (combat shooting) if doing it absolutely correct you would not drop your weapon's point of aim but just drop the mag from the gun and insert a fresh magazine with out moving the sights of the gun from the target. If you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical, but for some reason I know I'm wrong and forward is actually easier and better. It maybe because of the other item I mentioned which is 'indexing' the top round in the spare mag to make sure it is seated right as you move it toward the mag well.

I think folks are thinking that one is flipping the magazine but in reality once you grab it you are actually twisting your wrist to get it lined up right and rounds facing forward is actually easier. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

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Don't confuse them with the facts. :lol:

There will always be exceptions to the rule, some finding success. But I prefer they way thousands of experienced competitors do it, bullets forward.
If there was a better or faster way, they would use it, & others would follow.

gunzo said:

There will always be exceptions to the rule, some finding success. But I prefer they way thousands of experienced competitors do it, bullets forward.
If there was a better or faster way, they would use it, & others would follow.

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Other than cowboy type shoots I've never seen anyone playing at war carry cross. Just because something is good in a game doesn't make it worth a darned in real life.

The fastest, most fumble free reload is the goal, whether it be a game or life saving situation. And .. as has been stated, there are exceptions.

gunzo said:

The fastest, most fumble free reload is the goal, whether it be a game or life saving situation. And .. as has been stated, there are exceptions.

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Fastest I've ever heard of was a New York reload.

I never could decide for sure, so I just got a Galco Jackass shoulder harness with matching Glock holsters.

Seven years of shooting IPSC, & a tactical reload still gave me pause in the real world.. :wink: 8)

Jeepnik said:

blume357 said:

Really, either way you don't twist the gun.. in fact in the scenario described (combat shooting) if doing it absolutely correct you would not drop your weapon's point of aim but just drop the mag from the gun and insert a fresh magazine with out moving the sights of the gun from the target. If you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical, but for some reason I know I'm wrong and forward is actually easier and better. It maybe because of the other item I mentioned which is 'indexing' the top round in the spare mag to make sure it is seated right as you move it toward the mag well.

I think folks are thinking that one is flipping the magazine but in reality once you grab it you are actually twisting your wrist to get it lined up right and rounds facing forward is actually easier. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

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Don't confuse them with the facts. :lol:

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Do you mean the facts that you missed? like when Blume said, "If you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical..." imagine and practice through his very thing I did repeatedly. mag down facing aft, you pull up with weak side hand up putting your thumb forward on the rear of the magazine. Once out, your hand is in perfect position to allow the arm to simply make a U ark forward to meet the bottom of the mag well. That same motion with the mag facing forward and the gun would have to be facing you as the bullets would now be facing you as well. Why do it any other way??... other than a preference like Blume has to confirm seating the first bullet by pushing on the nose and ten twisting the mag to meet the mag well.

Sorry Yawn, I have to politely disagree... rounds facing forward is better and more practical. I still don't understand why you think you have to turn the gun. But to each there own.

When I grasp the new magazine I want that index finger and the bullets facing each other with the base of the mag in contact with the heel of that palm. With a (relatively) minimum amount of practice, inserting the new mag into the weapon can be done very quickly......Lots of good vids on the subject.....Travis Tomasie is one of the best.

Here he is being fast......
https://youtu.be/8d2VdaiIodo


And here he is being crazy fast......
https://youtu.be/Hgdq1FBYTUE


The bottom line is.........practice.

And to "educate your hands" try this: Take an empty gun, several empty magazines and a towel to your favorite TV watching chair/couch.
Sit down and get comfortable, place the towel across your lap, toss the empty mags onto the towel. Now, without looking at the magazines, pick one up, orient it in your hand and insert it into the gun. Drop that mag back onto your lap and repeat the exercise for the entire length of a TV show. You'll be surprised how good you'll get after a couple-a-three sessions. :idea:

Blume... your post a few days ago said that facing AFT was correct. I think you need to reread your previous posts.

For everyone else, i think you need to reread my last post... as you seem to not be understanding what i am saying.

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

No Yawn,, I either wrote it wrong or you read it wrong.. I said that it appears that the rounds pointing aft is the best way but in reality it is not.... I would agree with you that aft is best except that the folks that created the training I've taken who are smarter than me have taught me that the rounds facing forward is better.

Tactical reload: which would include pocketing the magazine you remove less than 5 seconds...
Emergency reload: having run the gun dry and slide is locked back... less than 3.

Yawn said:

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

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Nothing has to twist with bullets facing forward. I don't follow your logic at all. With bullets facing forward and the magazine is upsidedown all that is required is to rotate your hand 180 degrees counterclockwise, for a right handed shooter, to orient the magazine into the magwell. There is more work involved with bullets facing aft.

s4s4u said:

Yawn said:

I am not saying that someone cannot do an excellent job with the bullets in the holster facing forward when the top of the mag is pointed down.... but something has to change/twist in direction for the bullets to face the correct direction to insert i to the gun. Why, because something facing forward upside down will face backwards right side up. And since your gun should be facing forward... something has to twist to get them facing the same way. Why go through all of that needlessly?

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Nothing has to twist with bullets facing forward. I don't follow your logic at all. With bullets facing forward and the magazine is upsidedown all that is required is to rotate your hand 180 degrees counterclockwise, for a right handed shooter, to orient the magazine into the magwell. There is more work involved with bullets facing aft.

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Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

Blume, you said " if you imagine this, then the spare magazine should have it rounds facing aft would be the most practical, but for some reason i know im wrong..." i didnt read that wrong. You admitted that aft would be most practical.. I assume that you said this for the same reasons that I have been saying that it is. You did then say that it was "wrong", but you insinutated that you didnt truly know why. In your last post, your reason that aft was wrong was they told you to do it the other way. I get your trust of them and respect it... but i think the original purpose of this thread was to ask why? Why do you do you do it that way? They told you too... again totally respect that why. we would love to know why they told you that.

In fact, no one has yet said why facing forward is actually better... but they sure have passionately defended it.

Yawn, You should work for either the government or the lame stream media.... take what someone says and cut the last part out and use it 'out of context"... you quote me but then leave the next sentence or two out where I point out that what I just 'imagined' is wrong. I give up...

Once again, my only 'defense' of rounds facing forward is a lot of folks, professional instructors who are smarter and better and faster shooters than me say do it this way.

Yawn said:

In fact, no one has yet said why facing forward is actually better... but they sure have passionately defended it.

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Actually, someone has - Me, in the original post in this thread.

"I've tried both, and don't notice much difference, just seems more natural to me with bullets forward."

To explain: "More natural", means easier and faster with less chance of fumbling it. Ie, better for me. You like bullets aft, obviously for the same reasons others like bullets forward. No problem. Personal preference.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but twisting your hand and rotating your hand 180 degrees is pretty much the same thing. I am not saying that this is an awful thing, but there is no need to rotate or twist the hand to adjust tthe oritentstion of the bullets when they are upside down facing aft. Your hand doesnt have to move at all in any secondsry motion different from the arm..., just a clean arm arch forward from upside down to right side up, now presenting the bulkets facing forward.

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Sorry, but going from upside down to right side up requires rotation of some kind. Whether forward or sideways it requires rotation. There is no "twist", and there is no need to point the gun at yourself with bullets forward. You like your way and I like mine. I have tried your's and it isn't any more efficient and quite awkward actually. Bullets pointing aft requires twisting the wrist to grasp the magazine, whereas forward doesn't. Different strokes......

blume357 said:

Yawn, You should work for either the government or the lame stream media.... take what someone says and cut the last part out and use it 'out of context"... you quote me but then leave the next sentence or two out where I point out that what I just 'imagined' is wrong. I give up...

Once again, my only 'defense' of rounds facing forward is a lot of folks, professional instructors who are smarter and better and faster shooters than me say do it this way.

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Wow... i thoight no bashing allowed. Yoir "kindness" aside... i did nothing of the sort. Twice above in my statement do i acknowlegde that you said you were wrong in what you imagined. In fact the entire second half of the paragraph is about that specific fact. I didnt cut anything out, and fully addressed what you were saying, and i address it. My comment was... well, it is there to be read again. I will leave it as is.

I also acknowledged yoir reasoning of that was how smart people told you to do it. I am just wondering if they told you why to do it that way and if you would like to share.