Any gun which doesn't fire

The only safety on the glock is the cute gadget on the trigger. It's possible to pull the trigger without engaging it but very difficult. So if you pull the trigger inadvertently (no matter how) the gun must fire-otherwise it is dangerous! Except when shootiing junk ammo I have never had a failure with a: Glock, Ruger or Springfield XD. I have had some subsonic ammo fail to cycle a particular pistol when it works fine on another, but that's normal.

I've never understood the double / split trigger idea... you are still pulling the trigger, so how in the world is that a safety?
With that said, I currently carry the LC9s pro. I like the size weight and feel of the little pistol but really am starting to rethink the very light trigger. All my other semi-auto (well most of them) are double/single action with hammers and no safety, decock only. I'm thinking my next purchase for carry will be a Sig P290 which is a semi-auto double action only with no safety.. but about an 8lb trigger pull.

blume357 said:

I've never understood the double / split trigger idea... you are still pulling the trigger, so how in the world is that a safety?
With that said, I currently carry the LC9s pro. I like the size weight and feel of the little pistol but really am starting to rethink the very light trigger. All my other semi-auto (well most of them) are double/single action with hammers and no safety, decock only. I'm thinking my next purchase for carry will be a Sig P290 which is a semi-auto double action only with no safety.. but about an 8lb trigger pull.

Click to expand...

I agree on the trigger "safety" issue. I really like my RAC, but could do without the scissor trigger. It doesn't bother me, but my pistol has a thumb safety so the trigger "gadget" is redundent, IMO. I will be getting an LC9s soon and it will also have a thumb safety. I started on a 1911 so the thumb safety is natural to me. I also had a P95DC (handed down to my daughter) and am comfortable with the DA/SA trigger as well, as long as it has an exposed hammer. No DAO for me.

I am tempted to go with a single action only like the 1911, it's just that as I said almost all my pistols are the other.... the first time I saw a double action only semi-auto I did not like it... for the obvious reason you can't be as accurate with it as with the single action (2nd shot on most of mine)... but I'm thinking on the hopefully never to occur occasion I need to use my carry pistol.. that 8 -10lb trigger pull is not going to be a problem at all. I'm trying to remember if the Sig I was given in my last force on force class was double action only... seems like it was and I had no problem at all hitting center mass in most of the scenarios. then again all were within 10 ft except for one .... that was probably 15ft and I nailed the bad guy to the wall with about 6 shots... the hard part was shooting around the TV he had in both hands.... yes, that takes a lot of explaining but I was justified.

We carry a lot more than we shoot. Safety should always be of paramount concern. I have no issue with a manual safety or a double-action-only trigger. All of my cary guns have safeties. That is my choice.

Blume, double action only semi autos are like revolvers. Not that hard to be accurate.

I have trouble with semi autos that are double on the first shot, then single action after that. I have a tendency to double tap my first two shots. Which I guess isn't the end of the world as long as they are on target.

I really like my Sig P250. I think it is just about impossible to have a negligent discharge with it.

The little toggle thing on the trigger is there in case there is sideways pressure on the trigger when you are holstering.

Manual safeties (and loaded chamber indicators) on striker fired guns are usually there so the gun can be sold in states that mandate it.

They can also make the gun a bit "proprietary" if a child or criminal gets ahold of it but can't fire because they don't know to operate it. I like a gun with a manual safety (Ruger SR9 for example) as a nightstand gun as it is less likely to be misused by the non-owner.

blume357 said:

I've never understood the double / split trigger idea... you are still pulling the trigger, so how in the world is that a safety?

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. Who the heck thought that putting a safety in the trigger was a good idea when the safety and trigger are pulled at the same time? Gotta be something I am overlooking because it seems lots of folks are using them! :?

Colonel Daddy said:

blume357 said:

I've never understood the double / split trigger idea... you are still pulling the trigger, so how in the world is that a safety?

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. Who the heck thought that putting a safety in the trigger was a good idea when the safety and trigger are pulled at the same time? Gotta be something I am overlooking because it seems lots of folks are using them! :?

Click to expand...

I don't get it either, but would like to know.

I am not a Glock fan by any stretch of the imagination, but if you follow the rules of safe gun handling, ie, never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot, those type weapons are as safe as any other. A DA revolver doesn't have a safety, and yes I know it has a heavier trigger pull, but the same rules apply.

The Kahr doesn't even have the double trigger thingamajig.....

Folks,

Many of your comments and this thread Itself belay a lack of knowledge for the intended functions and use of a stiker fire pistol... but being even slightly antagonistic (for those who were) to what you dont understand is ignorant at best. This is why so many people loved the RAP without the manual saftey...because they didnt understand how these guns were designed. I expect the "i never make a mistake" crowd to try and tell me why their need for a complete lack of anything blocking their firing pin is a must to live... but i echo what teuthis said above.... it is soound reason.

I digress... If you understood the design and (problem that design solved) of a striker fire pistol, you would understand the design of the trigger safety. The gun is designed to be carried safely in a "semi-cocked" status without the need for an external manual safety. Why? Because the multiple internal safety mechanisms are all controled by the trigger safety... successfully "turning off" all safeties in one singular motion at the time that firing is desired at vice versa, instantly. The trigger safety is designed to reduce surface area of the safety switch, as opposed to the internal safeties being turned off by the full trigger itself. This reduces the chances of something inadvertently catching the trigger and turning off all of the safeties as well. Why the need for internal safeties? Because the firearm is being carried half cocked... similar to carrying a 1911 half cocked. No one is on the 1911 forum arguing the need for a 1911 without its external safeties. Glock just made then internal. Why is it being carried half cocked? One because that is itself another safety mechanism versus full cocked and locked such as a single action pistol. And Because that is what gives it the ability to have the same trigger pull every time as opposed to a double action pistol.

Glock invented a safe single action (almost) pistol without the need for a second step manual safety. It solved a huge problem...especially for law enforcement who dont train enough for a firefight for their line of work. It is a safe point and shoot system without any second steps needed.

See the link below:

https://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

That is why the rap wothout a manual safety or a grip safety is not the best idea. It is fully cocked and not really locked. Other companies have striker pistols that are fully cocked, but balance the loss of the semi-cocked "safety" of a Glock with a grip safety like a 1911... retaining the single shooter movement theory of Glock, but now with a true single action trigger pull. But law enforcement still hasnt bought too much into the fully cocked idea in part i believe because with a Glock, it is possible to get off a round or more with a limited, low, or poor grip that may otherwise not disemgage a grip safety.

But, because of theusis comment above, i wanted a Glock with an external manual safety... which is basically the SR series. If i could carry open like a police officer, i would carry a Glock (or maybe an XDm if i found that the difference in trigger pull eith a true si gle action actually made a difference). That is how it was designed to be carried. But, when messing around with cover garments for concealed carry, i needed something to safegaurd that fabric getting in the trigger safety. If they made a ccw Glock with a manual safety, I would look into it as a carry further... but that is basically the SR series. An XDm with a manual safety would be intersting too.

Yawn said:

.....If they made a ccw Glock with a manual safety, I would look into it as a carry further... but that is basically the SR series. An XDm with a manual safety would be intersting too.

Click to expand...

Where does the S&W M&P fit into this spectrum of partial and fully cocked strikers? There are M&P models available both with and without separate manual safeties. Have you considered them?

I believe the M&P series is the same as a Glock in design. I beleieve most strikers are the same as a Glock in basic functional design. The XDs i believe are fully cocked and the RAPs are fully cocked. I have a Glock clone with added sagety measures for ccw (sr45). Glock addin a manual safety would be interesting to me because of the sheer volume of parts, accessories, etc. i wouldnt need a Glock clone that basically matches my Glock clone. That is why the xdm with a manual safety would be interesting. Here is an opinion that might get some people going, but is none the less true... single action only or double action only semis are antiquated technology. And this ties back into the original post in that Glock reinvented the industry and that is the technology being questioned above.

I guess it depends on what one considers a "safety" and it's purpose. It's called GLOCK LEG for a reason, not 1911 leg or Sig leg or......

Some years ago I got a Glock cheap from a railroad COP, after he shot himself in the leg. He had trained on DAO pistols and was conditioned to grab the gun with a finger on the trigger to help with the double action when he yanked up. This is a problem with double actions not the Glock. I consider a DAO to be inferior and potentially dangerous. The difference in trigger pull on a double single requires additional practice for accuracy and unfortunately many don't have the time or inclination for it. They would be much better if with a single action only or learning to cock the double-single manually. Manual safeties can't be depended on to function all the time. I have had "accidental" discharges but I was doing something that I shouldn't have both times. The real answer is know your weapon and don't screw up.

grobin said:

Some years ago I got a Glock cheap from a railroad COP, after he shot himself in the leg. He had trained on DAO pistols and was conditioned to grab the gun with a finger on the trigger to help with the double action when he yanked up. This is a problem with double actions not the Glock. I consider a DAO to be inferior and potentially dangerous. The difference in trigger pull on a double single requires additional practice for accuracy and unfortunately many don't have the time or inclination for it. They would be much better if with a single action only or learning to cock the double-single manually. Manual safeties can't be depended on to function all the time. I have had "accidental" discharges but I was doing something that I shouldn't have both times. The real answer is know your weapon and don't screw up.

Click to expand...

Curious to know what you were doing when they happened.

I don't own a Glock but I do have a few striker guns. I don't really care about the split trigger thing. It is a non issue to me. I don't mind the grip safety on my XD. I feel fine with my Kahr CM9 that doesn't have the split trigger or an external safety & it doesn't bother me to carry a SA/DA striker fired Taurus with the safety off.

I do know there have been instances of clothing, drawstrings etc. getting caught in the trigger guard & people having problems but for me that is not so much an issue in everyday carry. Generally speaking I holster my firearms before putting them on my belt. I don't really have any reason to be drawing & reholstering my carry gun when I'm out & about unless I am attacked. So as long as I use a quality holster that covers the trigger guard & if I do unholster for some reason keep my finger off the trigger unless I'm ready to shoot I don't really believe it is likely for me to have a problem.

In both cases it was my fault. I got a new retention holster and did not check that the revolver was in it right. When it fell out it discharged. I know--don't carry a round under the hammer; but I counted on the holster. The other time I was hanging nearly upside down when the 1911 fell out of the holster. Disabling the grip safety is not that an good idea and the thumb safety was faulty. I should have removed the pistol before starting work and fixed the thumb safety (l should have realized it was defective).

I forgot to mention something in my prior post. Unless I am mistaken the purpose of the trigger dingus thing on the Glock trigger is to prevent the pistol from firing if dropped. To prevent the trigger from going all the way back due to inertia or at least that is what I read someone post elsewhere.