P85 ...... brass sometimes ejected into my face

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(( original post: Apr 19, 2017 ))


Here's the "problem/concern/dilemma:" the pistol works perfectly. But on occasion the ejected brass will whap me in the safety glasses, and/or drop the hot brass on my arm or other delicate location.

SO, is there any adjustment(s) that can be made to make the brass eject to the side, and/or otherwise not straight back into my face ??

I fully understand the larger concepts of extraction & ejection, but not the subtleties of such on the P85 ...... and by extension, the P89, P90, and P97.

Thanks Much !!
 

roylt

Hunter
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Basically the extractor pulls and the ejector pushes.

Take the extractor out and clean under it good to see if that helps but I bet the ejector needs bent a little. The old 85 model has a blade for an ejector. Maybe it is warn as the gun is very old at this point. If it has been shot a lot maybe the ejector is warn.

Also the newer mags are taller so if you use one of those they can push up on the ejector as the mag seats and could be causing an issue.

These are all guesses without looking at the pistol. But some what educated.

Post pictures if possible and I will try to comment more. Mag in with slide locked back looking in should tell a lot.
 
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I don't know how many rounds have been fired through the pistol. I don't see a lot of wear marks.

I removed the extractor and cleaned everything/everywhere. I then bent the extractor for more "grippy."

See pictures. The ejector is definitely touching the top lip of the magazine.

P85_ejector__21%20April%202017__2.jpg


P85_ejector__21%20April%202017__3.jpg


P85_ejector__21%20April%202017__4.jpg


P85_ejector__21%20April%202017__1.jpg
 

roylt

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What do you know about the mags? Are they original? It has been awhile since I have messed with my 85. Does the mag move the ejector a lot when you insert it?

This will take some time but you could load one round, drop the mag out so it can not touch the ejector and then see where the brass flies.
 
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I have 2 real-deal Ruger magazines and 3 Mecgar magazines. All touch the ejector when installed, but it is hard to tell if the ejector is moved by the magazine feed lip, the touch is that close.

I'll be getting to the range in the next couple of days. I try some single shots with no magazine installed, and see where the brass goes.

Thanks for the help !!
 

roylt

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From the pics the ejector looks good but it is hard to tell. It looks very close to the slide too so bending it up just a hair may not be good but that is what my gut says.

What do you think the mark is from to the left of the breach? Looks like something impacted there and made a dent.

I'm a P-nut sooo I try to help.
 
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I've done a close check on the ejector with a 10X loupe. It looks OK, no wear marks. Yes, it is "right there" as regards touching the slide, so I gave it a little up-bend anyway.

Yes, that's quite a ding on the breech. I can only think it is: a) from something unknown; or b) it is a wear mark from ejecting a zillion rounds.
-- I placed a round onto the breech face and the rim edge sits well below the ding, so maybe the rim moves way up there during ejection and wears on that location, but I can't tell. And I don't know enough of the specific details of brass movement during ejection to even guess if that ding is due to ejection.
-- Anyway, I'm going to use a diamond file and smooth out the ding.
 
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UPDATE

whew, got caught up in another project and got to the range this morning for more testing.

SO:
1) I bent the ejector "up" just a tiny bit. No problem with the ejector touching the slide.
2) I used a diamond file to smooth-up that ding.

RANGE RESULTS:
a) Still getting some "straight backward" ejections, but only 1 actually hit me in the face. The brass went to the left/right or over my head.
b) I would load 1 round directly into the chamber, empty magazine installed, then pull the trigger. Brass ejects 90 degrees to the right, every time for 15 rounds.
c) I would load 1 round directly into the chamber, NO magazine installed, then pull the trigger. Brass ejects 90 degrees to the right, every time for 15 rounds.

COMMENT
1) the straight-back ejections only occurred during normal firing, when a few rounds were still in the magazine.
 

roylt

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Lips on the mag worn or too wide allowing the next round to sit too high and interact with the eject process? Next round applying upward pressure on spent round case. Does it do this with all 5 mags?

I seem to remember a measurement document someplace that had the lip dimensions but can't remember where I saw it. Maybe google could help with that.

I'm no smith but trying to help. Wonder if a call to Ruger would get you any ideas? They usually just say send it in and they will check it over.

I think it has to be the mag though. Have you taken the mags apart to clean them inspect the spring etc?

One other thing I just thought, what ammo? Have you tried different brands?
 
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It happens with all 6 magazines, and all have been disassembled for cleaning at various times. Also happens with different ammo brands.

I like that idea re. the feed lips being too far apart. So I'll dig around the internet and see if I can find the dimensions to check the opening size.

Same as me, I'm no smith, but I am a mechanical engineer who is not afraid to mess around and fix it myself. This is like a high school science project.

I appreciate all the help and ideas !! Teamwork will solve this problem.
 

roylt

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Very interesting.
Keep posting, someone else may have an idea. I think I am out. Touched on everything I can think of.

Have you tried manual ejection? What I mean is loading a mag and then unloading by moving the skide back and forth by hand. Not sure you will see anything but maybe worth a try.

Good luck and if I think of anything else I'll post it. I'll be watching too.
 

revhigh

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These kind of slight variations occur all the time in SA's. There's a lot going on at the time.

I'm guessing it's at least partly ammo related. Cheap ammo is very inconsistent in terms of powder charge and variations can cause all kinds of issues from stove piping to variations in ejection.

Long story short. Try better ( read more expensive) or reload.

If it STILL persists, personally I'd just live with it if I really liked the gun, or if I was indifferent about the gun I'd just dump it. P85's just aren't worth investing money on.

I rarely have these issues because I reload for every caliber I own and have developed tried and true recipes for all my calibers. I'd bet my 9's would run perfectly in your gun with very consistent ejection, because my loads are very consistent and uniform. Even with that said ... sometimes it still happens when the gun starts getting dirty or needs oil.

I'd live with it if you really like it ... or dump it and get a better overall gun, like a used CZ75, which will blow away any 85 in every category.

REV
 
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revhigh,

I'm a tinkerer who doesn't like a mechanical system to outsmart me, so I'm "obligated" to figure this out.

And I'm not using cheap ammo, I'm using inexpensive ammo ..... which are reloads from a company that reloads. So the brass manufacturer is across the board, and I'm very happy with the quality of the reloaded ammo (I have shot over 15,000 rounds of it in various other calibers & pistols, all with great success). So it could very well be that the "problem" is indeed ammo-related in that one particular brand of brass is causing the problem.
(on a side note: my 9mm Browning HiPower does not like Fiocchi ammo, I get a lot of fail-to-extract).

And for comparison, I also have a Ruger P89 (9mm) and do not get any of the ejection-into-the-face problem.

HMMMMM, I just realized: I use the same magazines in both the P85 & P89. So there could be some very very minor dimensional differences between P85 & P89 that cause the problem in the P85 and not the P89, which means the P85 is simply doing what it is going to do. So I'll think on that for awhile.

In the meantime, when I return from this business trip I'll do some more testing & evaluation. I like the P85 and do not want to get rid of it.
 

roylt

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Depending on vintage the 89 would take a different mag. If all the mags have metal "feet" on them they should work in both units.
 
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I did some research on P85 & P89 magazines, and learned that both are interchangeable. Not really. Magazines from one pistol (I don't recall which) could not be shoved up high enough to catch the securing latch.
--- I then filed the "magazine retention notch" a very tiny bit (0.010" ??) to make the magazines from one pistol stay in-place in the other pistol. Worked just fine.
----- I cannot of course remember if I had to file the P85's to be retained in the P89, or the P89's to be retained in the P85.

Either way, all magazines from whichever pistol now work just fine in both pistols.

When I get back home later this week I'll look and see what I've got, and if I can figure out which is which.
 
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UPDATE 20 May 2017

I've been out of town longer than expected. So yesterday I was able to make smaller the distance between the feed lips on the magazines.
---- And today I got to the range for some live-fire testing.

In general, much improvement, though not 100% ...... out of 150 rounds fired, 4 hit me in the safety glasses. Thus, the feed lip modification did cause improvement.
 

P94/GP100

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Your ejector, rather than the extractor may be what needs some slight tuning.

You can always send the gun to Ruger (ideally with all magazines), and they'll likely diagnose and repair at little to no charge, but call them first to get authorization.

Best, Jon
 
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