Why can't Ruger ....

Produce a semiautomatic center fire pistol that's universally heralded by virtually anyone that knows guns ...

Like the Sig P226 ....

Or the CZ75 ...

Or the Beretta 92 ...

Or the Springfield Range Officer ...

Or any Glock ...


Seriously .... WHY ?

And please don't tell me they do ... Because they don't.


Ruger makes world class 22 auto loaders, DA revolvers, SA revolvers, rifles, shotguns, AR's, and decent 1911's.

What's up with the CF SA's ? I guess they KNOW they don't, because they keep reinventing and 'improving' them every 5 years or so. They sure as hell don't reinvent their revolvers, 22 auto loaders, or any of the other above mentioned classes ... Why ? Because they were great to begin with.

Any chance of this being a real discussion and not a piss fest ?

I know they're in the business of selling 'millions of guns' for their shareholders, but wouldn't they sell even more if they were great ? I also know the CF SA field is probably the class of guns that sells the most, so they concentrate there.

Why not make a universally acclaimed great gun, and sell it for $600 instead of continually mucking around, and concentrating on producing budget mediocre or sub par guns that they sell for $200-400. Spend the extra $200-300 on the gun in house, and produce a world class SA, and then make no excuses for selling it for what far better guns are sold for. Since it would really be a FAR BETTER GUN.

Fine ... Make the SR's .. And the Little Crappy line ... The 'working class' guy's guns, but produce a REALLY GOOD gun too, if it's good, people will pay the money they cost, and people won't have to start every sentence talking about Ruger SA's with ... 'For the money .....', and end every sentence with .... 'combat accurate' .... Or 'minute of paper plate' accurate ... or .... 'Good enough'.

They did it with the P90 .....


REV

revhigh said:

Produce a semiautomatic center fire pistol that's as universally heralded by virtually anyone that knows guns ...

Like the Sig P226 ....

Or the CZ75 ...

Or the Beretta 92 ...

Or the Springfield Range Officer ...

Or any Glock ...


Seriously .... WHY ?

And please don't tell me they do ... Because they don't.


Ruger makes world class 22 auto loaders, DA revolvers, SA revolvers, rifles, shotguns, AR's, and decent 1911's.

What's up with the CF SA's ? I guess they KNOW they don't, because they keep reinventing and 'improving' them every 5 years or so. They sure as hell don't reinvent their revolvers, 22 auto loaders, or any of the other above mentioned classes ... Why ? Because they were great to begin with.

Any chance of this being a real discussion and not a piss fest ?

I know they're in the business of selling 'millions of guns' for their shareholders, but wouldn't they sell even more if they were great ? I also know the CF SA field is probably the class of guns that sells the most, so they concentrate there.

Why not make a universally acclaimed great gun, and sell it for $600 instead of continually mucking around, and concentrating on producing budget mediocre or sub par guns that they sell for $200-400. Spend the extra $200-300 on the gun in house, and produce a world class SA, and then make no excuses for selling it for what far better guns are sold for. Since it would really be a FAR BETTER GUN.

Fine ... Make the SR's .. And the Little Crappy line ... The 'working class' guy's guns, but produce a REALLY GOOD gun too, if it's good, people will pay the money they cost, and people won't have to start every sentence talking about Ruger SA's with ... 'For the money .....', and end every sentence with .... 'combat accurate' .... Or 'minute of paper plate' accurate ... or .... 'Good enough'. They did it with the P90 .....


REV

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Excellent post! I have often found myself wondering the same thing!

Even S&W has accomplished this with the M&P series. There are several departments and agencies that have adopted this platform over the years.

The Ruger P90 was a great gun!

There is even promise for the American series, from the results I've seen others yield with it so far. I haven't got to shoot it yet.

I look forward with hope to a year that will produce some great firearms.

I guess this sums up my overall concern with Ruger. The focus on price point as opposed to quality and the fact I do not believe it is any longer a sustainable long term business model for Ruger. In my observation they have sustained themselves in the $400-$500 striker fired semi auto range of products being supplemented with ever decreasing sales from their hunting revolver line such as the Redhawk and Super Redhawk as an example.

This has worked wonderfully for the last 25 years or so however things do not stay stationary and the fact is 25 years ago it was a difficult thing to do to manufacture and produce a reliable 9mm semi auto. This is not the case today. The reason is technology and I'm not simply speaking of the tool making advances (cnc machines ect) but also the quality computer software design that's come online in the last 10 years or so. All that is required today is a engineer of suitable skill with the appropriate level of computer literacy, mixed in with a little "inspiration" from other borrowed designs. Mix those individuals with solid financial backing and you have a competitor that has appeared seemingly overnight. Field strip a Glock 17 or 19 then look down into the lower and compare it to almost any other striker fired semi on the market. You'll see similarities too specific to be random. So the information on how these are made is out there and has been copied for decades. They are not particularly complex machines and are easily reproducible, especially now. So things have changed now it's no longer 1990.

What I predict will happen is you will see a dramatic increase in the number of previously unknown manufacturers coming out of nowhere producing products that are specifically designed to do what the big names are doing now, as well or perhaps even better in an attempt to steal their market.

The counter to this is in my opinion to stop living in the past recognize we are now in 2016 and the game has changed and fall back as many others manufacturing firearms have to producing firearms no one else can. At quality levels no one else can because while competitors may be able to produce an SR clone or rival they will be hard pressed to produce a truly high end firearm that require experience and some art to create. That means higher end guns, better quality, better everything. And yes more expensive. This business model Ruger is clinging to is about to expire, and they can either adapt or slowly sink in the masses of pistols that are already appearing which do everything theirs do and sometimes cheaper. The competitors examples have already appeared if you care to look. I think this will accelerate over time. Ruger needs to change gears, and they have the know how and experience to do it.

I have noticed the same thing I have no interest in any of the center fire semi auto offerings. Yet Ruger is my go to brand for every other platform.

I also have wondered why they never made a pump shotgun. All the arguments against making one could have been used against making a 1911, yet it is probably their most successful semi auto model.

They did... the P95....

As soon as I get rich I plan to buy a Sig just to see how much better it is than anyone of my P95's.

I love my P85. Still working great for over a quarter century.

blume357 said:

They did... the P95....

As soon as I get rich I plan to buy a Sig just to see how much better it is than anyone of my P95's.

Click to expand...

Please .... The P95 was average at best ... At it's VERY best ....

The only difference is that it wasn't plagued by recalls and other problems, Like the rest of Ruger's SA new releases since then. And people wonder why LE doesn't use Rugers ?

It was in no way even close to world class like the guns listed at the top.

I bought my 226 for $399 and my 225 for $249 from CDNN used when they hit the streets. Hardly heed to be rich to buy guns at that price. I don't understand the obsession with buying new guns. As soon as YOU fire it ... It's used. So what's the difference. So what if somebody ELSE pulled the trigger.

Believe me ... There is NO COMPARISON between a Sig 226 and Ruger P95, and the P95 is the best of Ruger's bunch.

Ruger has become the Taurus or KelTek of semi autos in the last 10 years or so.

REV

revhigh said:

Produce a semiautomatic center fire pistol that's as universally heralded by virtually anyone that knows guns ...
Like the Sig P226 ....
Or the CZ75 ...
Or the Beretta 92 ...
Or the Springfield Range Officer ...
Or any Glock ...


Seriously .... WHY ?
And please don't tell me they do ... Because they don't.

Click to expand...

They do, if you are into innovating. Isn't the LCP the #1 selling handgun of the past few years?
Manufacturers that supply the genre-waves of today - guns that the public want to buy, are the smartest manufacturers in the world. If you aren't aware or have not kept up, everyone is buying small conceals these days and Ruger is leading the field in that regard.

joemsj51 said:

revhigh said:

Produce a semiautomatic center fire pistol that's as universally heralded by virtually anyone that knows guns ...
Like the Sig P226 ....
Or the CZ75 ...
Or the Beretta 92 ...
Or the Springfield Range Officer ...
Or any Glock ...


Seriously .... WHY ?
And please don't tell me they do ... Because they don't.

Click to expand...

They do, if you are into innovating. Isn't the LCP the #1 selling handgun of the past few years?
Manufacturers that supply the genre-waves of today - guns that the public want to buy, are the smartest manufacturers in the world. If you aren't aware or have not kept up, everyone is buying small conceals these days and Ruger is leading the field in that regard.

Click to expand...

LOL ...

Yeah ... Ruger is REAL innovative .... Ever see a KelTek P3AT ? And the Little Crappy Pistol is hardly in a class with the above guns.


REV

Rev, that's a question that would require a couple of pages just to cover the historical points to the end of the question.

...and even more to cover the necessary comparisons of other manufacturers and their product lines.

For instance, S&W got into the centerfire semi-auto pistol game before Ruger did. Their first offerings were single stack pistols for police use and of course also sold to the public with good success. They later got into the "Wonder 9" game with double stacks and combat sights. Ruger got into this game as well with the P series pistols at about the same time. S&W went onto improve the series that they got into offering a lot of choices along to product line. Ruger went on with their P series line and later started to go into plastic framed versions of them. At the same time SW dumped their entire metal framed pistol line and came in with a totally new striker fired line of plastic fantastics.

How that all worked out is all part of the game, it really is a horse race that never ends.

I really don't believe any manufacturer will build the next gun that I will like. I just hope that the ones that build the ones I like will continue to do so.

revhigh said:

Produce a semiautomatic center fire pistol that's universally heralded by virtually anyone that knows guns ...

Like the Sig P226 ....

Or the CZ75 ...

Or the Beretta 92 ...

Or the Springfield Range Officer ...

Or any Glock ...


Seriously .... WHY ?

And please don't tell me they do ... Because they don't. REV

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's a great way to start a discussion. "Hey guys, let's discuss something that I have an opinion about, and let me say before we start that anyone who disagrees with me will be automatically dismissed out of hand and their opinions mocked as idiotic, so don't bother. Ready, set....discuss!" Becoming kind of a theme around these parts with some folks.... :roll:

Ruger isn't known for high end world class guns. They are the Chevy not Cadillac. They don't have the skilled hands to assemble fine firearms. Ruger has engineered the skilled worker out of the process. Think UAW guys just sticking the same mass produced part on a gun as the frame passes them on the assembly line. There are a lot more buyers of $300 guns than $600 guns. They probably would sell 3 $300 guns for every 1 or 2 $600 guns. Their business model is how cheap can we build it - think of the redo of the Red Label for one of their recent failures or the No1 that was so late in coming with the reason waiting for good wood and then they show up with poorly fitted 2x4 quality.

The very premise of the opening thread is BS. ALL the guns noted have gone through a myriad of marks and changes. I've had 'em all and there is NOTHING AT ALL magical about the guns listed.

And so it goes...

LOL !!!


REV

Typical Rev High BS...Ruger's SA's all suck and if you disagree with Rev your an idiot...He knows nothing about the new RAP but has decided it is inferior to all of his pets, The SR 1911 is an entry level gun even though it offers similar upgrades to the Colt, Smith and SIG that cost hundreds more for the same basic configuration. His bloviating on Firearms he doesn't own and has no personal experience with has grown tiresome and repetitive and frankly, a waste of thinking folks time.

You can't have a honest discussion with Rev because if you disagree with his proclamations and premise...then you are a fan boi, ignorant, stupid or just plain dumb...

Ruger is on point to sell 2,000,000 firearms this year...their SA offerings include the acclaimed value for the dollar SR1911 line, the LCP and LC9 series ( yes, Rev similar to the Keltec EXCEPT where it matters...sales volume) and the new RAP with the removal chassis that offers a lot of future potential....and other items in the pipeline that will continue to improve Ruger's bottom line.

Luckily, Ruger builds guns for everyone, not just Rev Highness....the DA/SA examples that Rev lists are dinosaurs...and are growing out of favor with the fasting growing customers of SA handguns, but REV will never admit that perhaps Ruger knows what they are doing and where the future is...after all, they have produced some pretty cool designs in the last couple years that remain in very high demand and they have multiple new guns that they are holding off releasing until they catch up with demand and also, get Mayodan fully producing....Ruger is the most valuable gun company in the world today based on market value and their income to debt ratio is in a class by itself.

It is too early to tell how successful the RAP family of handguns will be....there are haters who will denigrate any SA handgun Ruger makes based on NO personal experience with the gun but the internet is rife with so called experts who hate this gun and love this gun...we pick and choose based on our personal biases....Rev is the master of it...I don't need to hear Rev's rebuttal,because I have heard it all before, I don't need or ask for his reply because his opinion is biased, nor based on first hand knowledge and pure opinion and speculation.

You HAVE to OWN the gun to have an opinion, maybe that should be a new requirement for posting....

Nice to hear a coherent response instead of more incessant fanboi blathering about how FANTASTIC Ruger's marketing plan is. The truth is that their marketing plan is lots better than some of their guns .... Unfortunately. If some could get their heads out of their you know what's to honestly assess a firearm it would be a help to all.

Thanks for a thought out and non-hysterical opinion ! Unlike some from the great state of New Hampshire.

REV

I'm not offended by the question. I own 2 Rugers an old P94 that is .40 flavored & a SR 1911. They are both good guns. I would say the P94 has decent mechanical accuracy but the ergonomics could be a lot better. I keep it partly because of sentiment & partly because it is stone reliable. I like my SR 1911.

As for the SR series I would own one by now if they didn't have the lawyer magazine safety. As far as the LC pistols I already own a Kel-Tec (I had one before Ruger came out with these). I don't see where I would gain anything by changing.

The Ruger American Pistol may be good. I don't know. I looked at one at Gander Mountain & it seemed really bulky & heavy for what it is. I didn't really like the way the grip felt. It might be better with the grip swapped to something different but I don't really need one & it honestly seems really big for carry pistol. If they come out with a smaller version I might be interested but as it stands right now I don't need another of their semi-autos & I don't see anything earth shakingly different enough from their competition to interest me.

Dixieboy
Do you own the new American Pistol? Ruger has developed and introduced a new CF/SA pistol...striker fired, no external safety model...have YOU shot it?

Perhaps Ruger has already done with the RAP what you suggest in your post, they have taken the best attributes ( in their minds) of the best available and latest and greatest options in striker fired weapons and introduced their newest entry in the highly contested striker fired duty sized pistol...

I think what folks need to understand is that Ruger was late to the SA pistol game because the old man didn't care about them, he liked what he liked and built guns that he wanted to build, his success is inarguable and Ruger only entered into the genre because of the potential for huge military and police orders as the handwriting was on the wall for the switch from revolvers to SA pistols for LE. During the family's reign, SA pistols were never a focus...there is a reason Ruger utilized a separate location/plant for SA pistol design and manufacture....the new management is taking the genre more seriously now....wait and see.

Mike J said:

I'm not offended by the question. I own 2 Rugers an old P94 that is .40 flavored & a SR 1911. They are both good guns. I would say the P94 has decent mechanical accuracy but the ergonomics could be a lot better. I keep it partly because of sentiment & partly because it is stone reliable. I like my SR 1911.

As for the SR series I would own one by now if they didn't have the lawyer magazine safety. As far as the LC pistols I already own a Kel-Tec (I had one before Ruger came out with these). I don't see where I would gain anything by changing.

The Ruger American Pistol may be good. I don't know. I looked at one at Gander Mountain & it seemed really bulky & heavy for what it is. I didn't really like the way the grip felt. It might be better with the grip swapped to something different but I don't really need one & it honestly seems really big for carry pistol. If they come out with a smaller version I might be interested but as it stands right now I don't need another of their semi-autos & I don't see anything earth shakingly different enough from their competition to interest me.

Click to expand...

The SR series mag safety is easily removable. Takes about 60 seconds and a paper clip.

revhigh said:

Nice to hear a coherent response instead of more incessant fanboi blathering about how FANTASTIC Ruger's marketing plan is. The truth is that their marketing plan is lots better than some of their guns .... Unfortunately. If some could get their heads out of their you know what's to honestly assess a firearm it would be a help to all.

Thanks for a thought out and non-hysterical opinion ! Unlike some from the great state of New Hampshire.

REV

Click to expand...

Answer ONE question Rev..do you own any of the Ruger SA's you declare inferior? No, your a blowhard with NO personal knowledge of the new RAP, for example...my comments have nothing to do with Marketing....but since you cannot honestly debate my response, you bloviate as usual..

I am not hysterical...you cannot make me hysterical...you value your opinions way too much if you think that :roll:

I enjoy a good debate and just am responding to your bait. I am just sick of your high horse attitude and your belittling anyone who disagrees with you...your comments are worthless because you are biased against Ruger and anyone who has an open mind, a brain and has been on the forum for more than a week knows it...

Bloviate on another forum about things you think you are an expert on...we are sick of your act and your bait here.

You suggest that I need to get my head out of my...based on your predetermined outcome. I OWN a Walther PPX, a SIG 226 and 320, a H&K VP9, a Glock 17 (since 1985), A Ruger RAP, a Colt 1911, a Springfield Custom Gunsite 1911, and a CZ 75...I have my opinion and know of whence I speak...perhaps you need to determine the location of your own head :lol:

When you have owned and shot the American Pistol...then you can share your opinion, and that is what it is - an opinion, not a declaration from on (Rev)High...