Cop looking for new duty weapon

I'm looking for some suggestions on finding a new duty gun. I've been carrying my P94DC since I went through the police academy in 1996. It is very reliable and shoots well but it's time for a change. It's not the best shooting gun but I usually score in the mid 90% range on qualifications. I have a P90 that I really like and shoot in the upper 90's. I know Massad Ayoob speaks highly of the P90. However, I don't like the manual safety and only having 8 rounds. I recently found two P89's, one a DC and the other is a DAO, for $199. Both are in good shape. I would definitely consider one if it shot like my P90. I have not shot the SR9 and their reliability hasn't been proven enough for my standards. My co-workers keep telling me to get a Glock. I've shot a Glock 17 and don't think it shot much better than my P94. I'm trying to stay loyal to Ruger but it's not easy. I've been through two shootings and take weapon selection very seriously. I've researched the Forum and would like some opinions from everyone.

Here are my questions:
Does anyone still carry a P89?
Does anyone have a P89 or P90 with mods? If so, how do they compare to the other guns I've mentioned?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Knowing your agencies specifications for a duty pistol might help us. Are you rural or urban Would also be helpful. Hi-cap mags aren't always the answer. Improving aim, and a larger caliber may be useful. The SR. 1911 comes to mind, but then you expressed that you wanted more than an 8 rnd mag capacity.
gramps

No new Rugers or 1911's of any kind are approved. I think I'm the only one grandfathered in on a Ruger. I work in a county with about 1 million people. I often work alone and back up may be 15 minutes away.

Sir, to me that is the ultimately serious question, not in line for bull sh$$ biased answers. Obviously the criteria has to be 100% in all aspects; i.e., dependability, accuracy, weight, fit and feel. Actually my confidence has always been with the older DA/SA, all metal hammer guns, point in fact I recently purchased a LNIB Special Edition P89, which has all the right stuff including hi-cap mags and I really like thus far, though a little on the bulky, heavy side.

Of the many handguns I've owned over the years, there is only one that stands well ahead of all the others. No, it is not cheap but is the ultimate in all the aforementioned aspects, with the exception it is limited to 8+1 capacity. However, if I ever had to put my life on the line with only a handgun, there is but one choice and that is the Walther P5. Needless to say, I have owned one for many years and will never sell it.

So here's my bias, I would far rather fire 9 deadly accurate than 16 that are just noise.

The problem with using a Ruger P series is a source for parts availability. The Federal Bureau of Prisons used the DAO versions of the P89, P93 and P95. They have recently did away with that contract due to parts availability and will be undergoing some evals to select a new handgun. They also have a few Beretta 92 DAO Vertecs but were in the same situation as Beretta was no longer supporting the DAO platforms.

I would recommend any good quality firearm that is common within your area. reason being is there will probably be armor certified folks around and parts availability if needed.
As far as caliber that is between your personal preference and your own departments policy. They all have similar stopping power percentages these days. 9mm today is not the 9mm of the late 1980's and is in the same effectiveness range as 40 and 45 as far as auto rounds go.

Good luck.

Your dept has an armorer I assume. He/she is qualified to service several weapons. Parts availability is going to be a major factor. But number ONE is going to be reliability.

From what you mentioned, you have many years of experience with the P94. So you are thus familiar with it's "manual of arms".

With this said, I could only recommend something similar (metal frame, hammer fired, semi-auto.) Reading some of my posts, you probably already know which gun I'm going to recommend...

Now keeping in mind you want more than 8 rounds, and NO manual safety, the P220 is probably out for you. So it then falls into either a P229 .40 cal. P226 40 cal. And P227 .45 cal.

Any dept armorer should be more than qualified with and equipped with any parts these guns would ever need.

Just a thought.

Oh and just to add real quick, most dept. Offer NICE LE discounts on the models I mentioned. Might be able to get one cheaper than some other brands...

For a reliable gun and ease of service/parts I'd have to go with the Glock. If caliber is open I'd lean to the 40.

no LEO experience here but i have carried a p90 for many years as my edc and i have recently opted for a lighter and smaller package. at first i tried a walther PPQ since i do not care for a glock after shooting one several times....just could not warm up to it. the PPQ is a dream to shoot with much better ergos and trigger than the glock in my opinion and more importantly, i was more accurate with it. the only issue i had was i was still not comfortable with the trigger safety system which is like the glock for EDC. i then tried a walther P99as and coming from the ruger p90 style of chambering and decocking it feels much more natural for me since the P99as has a decocker feature and this is why i mentioned it to you. it comes in 9mm and .40 too, also other LEO's are known to carry it and in other countries it is standard issue. good luck in your pursuit and stay safe..........

You really should be asking your armorers these questions.

I would sure as hell lean towards the Sig P226 line in 9mm if I were you.

Why in the world would you want to 'stay loyal to Ruger' when your life depends on it, there are far better choices, and far better guns out there ?

It's hard to believe you wouldn't immediately know what gun you'd like to carry given your experience and the fact that you've already been involved in 'several shoot outs'. Glocks are reliable and decent tools, but Sigs are unequalled in quality and accuracy. For your professional use ... Rugers shouldn't even be under consideration ...

REV

Nothing against Ruger but,

I'd vote Sig as my first choice (Glock is not even in the running).

But I went back and read all of your original post twice and would give a P89dc in stainless my second vote.

I really don't understand this big accuracy thing.... minute of head at 50ft is adequate for any handgun... what is much more important is reliability and comfort.

revhigh said:

You really should be asking your armorers these questions.

I would sure as hell lean towards the Sig P226 line in 9mm if I were you.

Why in the world would you want to 'stay loyal to Ruger' when your life depends on it, there are far better choices, and far better guns out there ?

It's hard to believe you wouldn't immediately know what gun you'd like to carry given your experience and the fact that you've already been involved in 'several shoot outs'. Glocks are reliable and decent tools, but Sigs are unequalled in quality and accuracy. For your professional use ... Rugers shouldn't even be under consideration ...

REV

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Did you actually read the OP? He said he's been carrying the P94 for the last 18 years and has been in 2 officer involved shootings. The Ruger P94 has obviously served him well, otherwise he wouldn't consider a "staying loyal to Ruger." Put your arrogant fanboi attitude aside for half a second and think about what you type. :wink:

As far as Sigs being "unequaled in quality and accuracy" modern production Sigs are not what the W. German Sigs were 20 years ago. That said....I AM a Sig fan, having owned the entire line up over the last 15 or so years. But the quality HAS slipped since production moved mostly to the US. The manufacturing techniques have changed with the location as well. Don't argue with me about it either.... just google it. I've personally sent many a Sig back to the factory on the customers dime due to various issues. If you choose a Sig pistol, run it for a while before trusting it's reliability.

Glocks are the LE standard in the US based on the fact that the majority of LE officers field a Glock [65%+or-]. And aside from from transitional issues from different gens and caliber introductions they usually are 100%. Chances are the the "armorer" has more experience with the Glock platform than any other current design. Hence the OP's fellow officers recommending the Glock. "Decent" may be the internet moderator understatement of the day. :lol:

I'm guessing that the OP has to buy his own duty weapon. Correct me if I'm wrong. As noted above, the only thing you will give up by fielding the P89DC is parts availability since Ruger no longer makes the P series pistols. And while they are not known to break, every weapon will need an occasional part if heavily used. However, if the Ruger runs 100% and you qualify the same as you do with a Glock, I'm sure you will be fine with the P89DC. Most LE officers do not have the time or money to shoot 1000's of rounds downrange like the super duper internet moderators found here or elsewhere. Nor do they have the marksmanship ability of the keyboard dead-eyes either. A reliable pistol with duty ammo is more important than what groups you can shoot with your handloads from your Gold Cup. Don't let the fanboi crowd persuade you away from what you already know and trust.

Sounds to me like you already have the gun. You state you like the P90 and regularly shoot 90% scores with it. If you don't like the manual safety, leave it off. 8 rounds of .45 ACP are no handicap if you can shoot.
I agree with Al and Blume that accuracy is not everything in a police gun and SIGs ain't what they used to be. For the last eight years I have carried an HK, whose quality is unquestioned. If you buy one you should have no concerns. Glock also makes a very good weapon. There are numerous good models out there. If you just want to buy a new gun, take your time and pick the one you like.
Oh for the good old days. Wish I could still carry my Smith & Wesson 624...

Officer Ramsey, given the news over the past few weeks and the deterioration of civil society as a result, I hope you find a sidearm that will provide you an increased level of confidence and safety. I don't have any suggestions to offer, only my best wishes in tough job. Stay safe.

Choice is very subjective and opinions ,like butts, we all have one, but in your OP, sentences two and three conflict...yes, if there is ANY 'doubt' in your mind, it can and will affect your shooting.You need to find that which is "supported" (parts and service available) and that is comfortable as well as accurately acceptable to YOU................me I am a revolver guy , and the ONLY auto I was ever comfortable with is a Colt 1911 ,still have mine from the 1960s and it can still shoot ONE hole groups..
Like Massad I prefer the 45 acp............MY son Nick is going through the same thing looking around trying everything and just got a Glock17....seems like about every department I know has and uses them, and they are affordable at LE pricing......so is the ammo. Aside from the fact that the improvements in the 9mm today are far superior to years ago,,,,,,,,,,,lots of rounds ,in a minimal spacing as well, not always 'backup '' around when you need it.

and like Gunny above, we too wish you well in a tough job, thank you , and stay safe out there.

T. Ramsey:

Well there's your answers, aside from the aforementioned biased confusion, the Ruger has brought you this far, IMHO buy the P89DC or maybe even a couple. Not that I believe you will ever need them, but at present there are a butt load of parts available. That is unless, you've always wanted a hammerless DAO plastic gun. :mrgreen:

Osage

If you can put aside the typical Ruger fanboi rants from the standard expected few for a few minutes, I think it's unlikely that anyone else uses a Ruger of any model on your force. There's reasons for that. If you want to know them ask your fellow officers. Using an oddball or unique to the force gun makes mag interchangeability impossible, and functional differences of paramount importance, if in a situation where several officers need to possibly share mags, as well as possibly use each other's guns. These are just some reasons (as well as cost) why most large PD's settle on one or maybe two standard duty guns. Training and armorer functions are standardized and everybody knows what to expect if in a situation where LEO's need to share each other's equipment.

I'm a little surprised you even have the option of choosing your own gun in a force that large. In my little town of about 15000 ... The 6 or 8 cops all carry standard full size Glock 40's. Backup guns only are their own personal choice.

Good luck in your quest and stay safe.

REV

Rev, I could not have said that better! I was planning a follow up post. As my original post ONLY addressed the OPs questions. But I could not agree more! Most PDs utilize only Sigs and/or Glocks. There are reasons for that! Just something to think about... My suggestions were based on the OP's familiarity with his given platform, BoA, and PoU! I took into account only facts, defined here as given information, and not unknown variables. A true LEO can appreciate that.

Just a side thought. I find it interesting that many members here prefer a DC only safety mechanism on their DA/SA pistols, but are unwilling to consider other models, than old P series Rugers...

DA_TriggR4Ruger said:

Just a side thought. I find it interesting that many members here prefer a DC only safety mechanism on their DA/SA pistols, but are unwilling to consider other models, than old P series Rugers...

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LOL DA ..... Koolaid is addicting ... And addicts many times exhibit poor judgement and tunnel vision ... Concentrating only on their next fix of only what they've known before ... . I don't know if I'd say 'many members' ... But there's certainly a 'few' ... That have the characteristics you mention.

The vast majority here are open minded, experienced with many different brands, and can objectively evaluate guns for what they are, and are not, without bias for the name written on the slide. Alas ... A few are not capable of those honest evaluations. Most guns excel in certain aspects ... Only a few excel in most attributes. Those are the ones I try to own. As I experience different guns with better characteristics ... I tend to lose interest and sell off the deficient ones ... No matter what brand name they are.



REV