P89 Accuracy

Just to define the parameters, I don't have a vice that will rigidly secure the pistol in a fixed position, so a solid slightly padded bench rest arrangement is the best I can do. Even so, thus far I am not confident that I have been able to totally offset the impact of the long trigger travel and the rather creepy final. As a trigger function comparison I have not been able to produce a group that is even close to my Walther P5, which has virtually no trigger travel or creep.

In an effort to keep facts totally separate from the fantasy BS, not withstanding that agreed "you usually get what you pay for", I really rather doubt that a 9mm Walther barrel is any more accurate than a 9mm Ruger barrel. Even moreover, that in this case the 3.5" Walther barrel can be more accurate than the 4.5" Ruger barrel.

Ironically I'm beginning to like my pristine new-to-me P89T more than my virtually new Walther P5 for a variety of reasons; mag button release, higher capacity and overall ergonomics, besides it fits my drop leg Fire-Dragon holster better. Hopefully with time and practice I'll get used to the rather crappy trigger.

P.S., no the P5 is not for sale!!!

Osage

The barrel alone is not the sole factor of mechanical accuracy in a semi-auto pistol. Barrel to slide fit is one, slide to frame fit is another and on and on.

...and that is just speaking of mechanical accuracy.

How you handle things like the trigger pull and such aren't really a mechanical accuracy point but it is you and that gun and the nebulous marriage of the two.

I tend to lean to the gun isn't normally the issue when it comes to average accuracy as that is more likely the shooter. I will say that P series have never been all that accurate in my hands but some have been maybe better than others. I owned a P85 for many years and it wasn't very accurate but I could put together fair targets with it. Learning the trigger helped but at some point I outshot that pistol at 50'.

What if you did have a gun vise and that gun was a one hole wonder with it? If you couldn't shoot it accurately because of the trigger or sights or such, what would it matter if it was mechanically accurate?

For starters, slug the barrel and see what the groove diameter is.....you may be surprised. Matching the diameter of the bullet to the groove diameter of the barrel in an important component to accuracy. There are, of course, others. 8)

LOL ... another P89 accuracy (or lack thereof) thread ...

P89's are 6-8 inch guns at 50 feet.

Most other 9's are 2-3 inch guns .... even with shorter barrels.

Issue resolved.

REV

revhigh said:

LOL ... another P89 accuracy (or lack thereof) thread ...

P89's are 6-8 inch guns at 50 feet.

Most other 9's are 2-3 inch guns .... even with shorter barrels.

Issue resolved.

REV

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It could be worse, want another "how I love my 21' targets with my mini something-something and I never shot a gun before and now I need a great holster for $10 or so" ????

Rev, I did a little better than that with my old '85 and shot a couple of P89's lately (last year or so) that I put up some decent groups but nothing great.

I absolutely love my Ruger revolvers. Why shouldn't my semi-auto experience be just as fun? Well it should be! CZs and Sigs for me from now on.

I have had three Ruger P89s. A Beretta 92FS Inox, and currently 2 CZ75s. One being a CZ75 B Stainless and the other is a SP01 Tactical. All guns were 9mm. all metal service style pistols. I still have the CZs.

The Beretta was NOT a bad gun, but the CZs fit my hand better.

With regard to having a rock solid gun vise, the thought was that would isolate whether the shooter(me) should actually select a different firearm.

However thus far the Ruger P89 is considerably more accurate than some I've owned in the past. The Walther P5 comparison is that of a "golf ball" sized group to a "baseball" sized group at 30', however since I'm relatively new to the P89 that is definitely not enough to put it in the bad pile.

No, I don't claim to be a marksman with a pistol, for that matter any pistol. Also aside from getting into a good pistol/bad pistol debate I've owned both high end and low end pistols that I personally could not shoot consistently accurate. As previously stated even though I wish it had a better trigger function, this P89 now has a new home and hopefully in time I will improve.

So what are the design characteristics I don't like about a Walther P5 with a MSRP of $1250; bottom mag latch, single stack magazine, uncomfortable front grip serrations and left side ejection, but it does shoot great.

Osage said:

So what are the design characteristics I don't like about a Walther P5 with a MSRP of $1250; bottom mag latch, single stack magazine, uncomfortable front grip serrations and left side ejection, but it does shoot great.

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From what you say .... I'd guess a lot of the issue is your own inconsistency. I shoot equally well with all my autos if the gun is capable ... And neither the P89 OR P91 that I owned could shoot better than 6-8 inches at 50 feet. Ruger returned my P91 that I had sent them for accuracy issues with a note that said 'the pistol functions as designed' and test targets at 25 FEET that had 3-4 inch groups. Bye bye P91 ....

Regarding the above quote ... With all those 'characteristics' you don't like ... Why in the world did you buy it ? You could have had a CZ75 AND a Sig P226 for that amount.

REV

My posts are not intended to cause a "you should have bought" or a "my gun is better than your gun" debate.

So why did I buy the P89T, simply put I liked the fit and function, not to mention the price. Now I believe its just a matter of getting use the gun.

With that in mind the german made Walther P5 is the most accurate, most reliable handgun I've ever owned, however that does not mean I think its utterly perfect.

Rev, first I think its utterly wonderful that all your guns are so capable and second that you able to be so consistently accurate with all of them.

Osage

Hi Osage,
You are new here but need to know, REV likes to stir the pot. One of those "grain of salt" moments.

I "collect" the P-guns and will always have one. I don't care if it shoots or not. I enjoy them.

I have several P series guns. In single action mode yes the trigger travel is long as well as the reset but there is a perceptible bump before the firing pin strikes that if I slow down at that point I am very accurate with a P89. In fact more accurate than I've ever been able to get with any glock and I have shot alot of rounds with em both. That said I'm more accurate with my sig p226 and the smaller lighter p228. I have had other p series guns specifically P 95s where one was accurate and the other was not so maybe qc issue. For me the p89 is a keep it in the truck, cabin, boat, camper, etc budget gun that is good enough to go to war with if you have a "good" one. All my sigs have been good ones but at 2 to 3 times the cost. YMMV

roylt said:

Hi Osage,
You are new here but need to know, REV likes to stir the pot. One of those "grain of salt" moments.

I "collect" the P-guns and will always have one. I don't care if it shoots or not. I enjoy them.

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If by stirring the pot you mean speaking the truth without any Ruger or rose colored glasses on ... Then yeah ... Guilty as charged.

I've always said ... They're handsome and reliable ... And well known for being far less than stellar in the accuracy department. Except for the P90 ... Which could probably be even better with a decent trigger.

There's countless threads discussing the same thing on here .... And on the Internet ... It's nothing unknown in the gun community or to experienced auto shooters ... To pretend otherwise is just sticking your head in the sand.

As one user mentioned ... They're good truck/boat/home defense guns, but for range guns or guns to improve your shooting .... Not so much.

If someone can't get good groups but is otherwise a decent shooter ... It's probably the gun, and it's why there's so many of these P gun inaccuracy threads.


REV

Osage said:

My posts are not intended to cause a "you should have bought" or a "my gun is better than your gun" debate.

Rev, first I think its utterly wonderful that all your guns are so capable and second that you able to be so consistently accurate with all of them.

Osage

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You started a thread titled 'P89 Accuracy', most likely indicating you were unpleased with the accuracy of your P89. People tried to explain why you're experiencing that phenomenon. You yourself indicated one of your other guns was far more accurate. To attribute one guns accuracy over another's to the barrel alone shows you don't understand how the whole package is involved in the accuracy characteristics of a gun.

Saying that a CZ75 or 226 is a better and more accurate gun is no different than you saying your other gun is more accurate.

You asked ... We answered ... Take it from there. Like or dislike any gun you choose to ... And buy or don't buy any gun you choose to ... Your money ... Your choice ...

REV

Repeat the same garbage enough on the net and it becomes true. I have owned a few P series guns and NONE of them shot "6-8 inches at 50ft". Rev owned 2 that supposedly shot horribly and now the whole series are inaccurate. That must be why they sold them by the millions for 25 years. People who spend 3 times as much for a pistol that does nothing better than a P gun have to keep beating the same horse. The P guns don't have the best trigger or sights for shooting little groups but that is not the purpose of a service pistol. If I can shoot 4" at 25 YARDS with a P gun and you can shoot 2" at the same distance with your overrated and over priced foreign gun......I don't care. I'll take the money saved and put it towards more ammo or better yet....a carbine or rifle if I want more accuracy.

I also get tired of this "save your money for a better gun" attitude. Stop and think about that. Perhaps the people who choose a Ruger pistol have plenty of money to buy a expensive import or domestic pistol but prefer a Well made, reliable, American made gun. Condescending is perhaps the nicest way to describe that attitude. Same story different day. OP, sounds like you are loving your P89, keep practicing and you will adjust to the trigger and sights and in the end it will do what you need it to do....forever.

Al James said:

I also get tired of this "save your money for a better gun" attitude. Stop and think about that. Perhaps the people who choose a Ruger pistol have plenty of money to buy a expensive import or domestic pistol but prefer a Well made, reliable, American made gun.

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Hey Al, you do now that I like you and have had some fine fun reading some of your stuff here.

...but some of that "save your money for a better gun" comes from posts about the lack of accuracy, whether percieved or actual of any given gun and because this is a Ruger forum, it is mostly about Rugers.

When somebody buys a pocket gun and can't hit crap at 21' they blame the gun, it could be their very first gun and it's a pocket gun, good grief.

Anyone that buys a full sized "SA/DA service gun" with a service trigger will need to shoot a lot to get good with it, doesn't really matter the brand, if it's their first, it will be a sloppy one.

My first semi-auto pistol was a new P85 and it was a fun gun and I shot it a ton. I also was a good shot with Army service pistols and later on warmed over target grade ones. My first CZ was given to me and it changed my life, it was a service gun with a service trigger and it felt as if it had some form of smart bullet tech. I could hit targets that took a high degree of concentration with other guns, to doing it with my eyes almost closed.

When I bought my second CZ, it was a new model and actually cost less than a P-89 at that time. I don't beat up guns but when someone posts up with an issue that could have been corrected with better research, they'll get that "get a better gun".

I recently posted in a thread that had some reference to a gentleman that bought an LC9 and his wife had difficulty manipulating the slide and my advice was 'if you or her felt that she needed a better gun because of this issue, buy a Boberg XR9s. It really is the easiest slide to pull back that there ever was'. It's a $1000 gun but it does allow a person with some physical issues to operate easily. That wasn't a dump on anyone nor any company, it was a true statement and possibly helpful but maybe an expensive "get a better gun" to some.

My comments weren't directed at you cheese! I just read some people's replies here with disgust. Instead of offering up suggestions to improve the accuracy of the weapon that the poster actually OWNS we head down the same ol' roads to nowhere. You should have bought, you must be a new shooter because everyone knows, etc.

My advice usually involves first leaving the range cussing mad. Go home and pour a cold beverage of your choice. Clear the weapon twice and then put all of your ammo elsewhere and proceed to dryfire (gun design allowing) the pistol until your booger hook hurts. Focusing on sight alignment
throughout the entire session with each and every trigger pull. Repeat this every evening until you can make it back to the range for another attempt at accurate live fire. Chances are your live fire accuracy will have improved even if the gun is not a particularly accurate piece. If not you can look into ammo selection, having a known skillful shooter try, etc.

Even if you are an excellent/ Experienced pistol shooter, jumping from one brand or operating system to the next can wreak havoc on your accuracy. Example, hand a 1911 afficinado a
Ruger P89 and have him produce a group

Most the time the gun is far more accurate than the shooter is cabable of holding. However, the first thing to usually take the blame is the gun, then the ammo and finally after swallowing a touch of pride.....the shooter realizes they need more practice.

While selling guns for a living I had many guns come back with complaints of accuracy or lack thereof. After heading to the range with the customer very few ever got sent back.

Sorry if my post from last night came across as a little brash, life's been throwing me some challenges lately so I vented here. Don't mean to come across as a total Richard cranium.

Forgive me guys I never meant to be vague and/or ambiguous, but over the years the selection of a handgun for me has changed dramatically. For example, each winter I go to hunt or should I say to be hunted by the wild hogs down in the Mississippi swamp. There is an area extending inland above the coastal backwaters with a rather large concentration of what appears to be the originally imported wild hogs, which are not to be confused with the commonly known feral farm pigs. Ironically, a professional hog hunter from Texas did just that last spring, fortunately a local got to him in time. As the Cajuns say, according to the TV shows, feral hogs run away from you, these don't.

Actually as a now legal backup handgun, this year I plan to take the P89 instead of the P5 largely because of the increased magazine capacity and quicker change-out process. And contrary to a first thought, loaded with 9x19mm FMJ ammunition, while common logic might be a large caliber hand cannon loaded with hollow point ammunition. But literally, life and limb(legs) may depend on that first shot recovery so as to get on the next, since there may be multiple, unseen targets that charge with razor sharp tusks from the thick undergrowth first appearing as close as 15'. Experience has proven that even though the FMJ ammunition will penetrate the thick torso shield, only a head shot will dependably stop them.

After many annual hunts, it would seem that irregardless whether its a little sow or big boar from 50# - 450# unlike the feral farm pigs, these hogs are inherently very territorial, along with an extremely bad attitude. The Cajuns that I hunt with are deer dog hunters, who primarily remain in their Pirogue boats. Obviously they think I'm crazy for venturing into the thick undergrowth to hunt the hogs, even though their dogs are often injured and/or killed by an ill tempered hog.

As they say, Armchair quaterbacks never lose a game

Osage :mrgreen:

Wow !

For that use I'd want something single action ... Like a 1911 or a large caliber revolver.

Trying to hit a charging hog with a gun that has a trigger like the 89 is likely to get you killed.

REV

"Wow, that's a landmark idea", around Christmas I'll be heading south to the swamp, you and your large caliber revolver are totally welcome to go with me. I've always wanted a "point man" a.k.a. gator bait to wade ahead through the mud amidst the palmettos. That is, as long as I can outrun you.

Osage