striker vs hammer

Yawn said:

gc70 said:

Restrike capability is only available through the trigger on fully DAO designs or the DA mode of DA/SA designs.

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I hadn't thought about that... probably because I don't use hammer fired guns. So, if second strike is important to you... then really DAO would be the only way to go ( or make sure your only crappy round is the first one of a DA/SA). DAO is too much of a draw back for me in other areas to warrant that solution for second strike capabilities over the other problems.

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From a tactical standpoint, clearing the round that failed to fire is the proper method, not continuing the pull the trigger and hope the primer ignites.

This should not be a reason for buying a DA or DAO over striker or SA. It should be based on what you are comfortable operating.

modrifle3 said:

Yawn said:

gc70 said:

Restrike capability is only available through the trigger on fully DAO designs or the DA mode of DA/SA designs.

Click to expand...

I hadn't thought about that... probably because I don't use hammer fired guns. So, if second strike is important to you... then really DAO would be the only way to go ( or make sure your only crappy round is the first one of a DA/SA). DAO is too much of a draw back for me in other areas to warrant that solution for second strike capabilities over the other problems.

Click to expand...

From a tactical standpoint, clearing the round that failed to fire is the proper method, not continuing the pull the trigger and hope the primer ignites.

This should not be a reason for buying a DA or DAO over striker or SA. It should be based on what you are comfortable operating.

Click to expand...

Correct if a round doesn't go off one shouldn't just keep pulling the trigger. Tap, rack, bang is the proper response.

57K said:

A preset striker that requires nothing more than a pull of the trigger to complete the striker going to its rear and releasing is not DAO and why Glock coined their own term, "Safe-Action." :wink:

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Maybe more terms -such as "uncocked DA" and "partially-cocked DA"- are needed to more accurately describe trigger modes. However, a Glock trigger does fit in the definitions that are currently generally used to describe trigger modes.

A Glock trigger satisfies the double-action definition by performing two actions: (1) preparing the firing mechanism for firing, and; (2) releasing the firing mechanism to fire. A Glock has no way to fire in single-action mode as Gaston Glock explained in his patent application (page 4, line 48): "The pistol is therefore always uncocked or partially uncocked." Since a Glock trigger only operates in double-action mode, DAO is an accurate description.

"Safe Action" refers to elements that allow a Glock's firing mechanism to fire by automatically disengaging three different mechanical safety mechanisms - trigger, firing pin, and drop safeties. The three automatic independently operating mechanical safeties are built into the fire control system of the pistol. All three safeties disengage sequentially as the trigger is pulled and automatically reengage when the trigger is released. The trigger and firing pin safeties could be removed and a Glock would still function. The drop safety is ingenious and cannot be removed because it is part of the design of the trigger bar.

57K said:

I think you're buying into the BATF view. When you rack the slide on a Glock or Ruger SR, you might consider that as partially uncocked which in itself is ambiguous. Partially Cocked is the more accurate term.

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Gaston Glock used the term "partially uncocked" in the Glock patent application; I have no reason to argue the accuracy of the language he used.

57K said:

From revolver terminology we know that pulling the trigger with the hammer cocked fires the revolver. In DA mode the trigger completes 2 separate functions, moving the hammer back far enough that it will ignite the cartridge that occurs with the continuance of the trigger pull.

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The Glock trigger moves the striker back "far enough that it will ignite the cartridge that occurs with the continuance of the trigger pull." The patent application makes it clear (page 2, line 54) "the force of the partially loaded firing-bolt spring or hammer spring is insufficient to fire a shot" and (page 2, line 64) "The cocking for each shot is effected by the trigger."

57K said:

The only reason the Safe-Action pistols can't be classified as single action is because of the very short rearward movement of the striker before it releases. Since it does that from a pre-cocked position where the cruciform on the trigger bar intercepts the striker lug to put it into a Pre-Cocked, not partially Un-cocked it is not dissimilar to what happens with DA/SA pistols when fired in the SA mode, i.e. CZ where the trigger forces the hammer slightly rearward to allow the sear to disengage and fire t.he pistol.

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A Glock's "very short rearward movement of the striker" is substantially different from the rearward hammer camming in a DA/SA or SA pistol.

A Glock striker moves from a position in which it has insufficient force to fire a shot to a position in which it does have the force needed to fire a shot.

Hammer camming in a hammer-fired pistol reflects overcoming positive sear engagement in a fully cocked hammer. The CZ75 is well-known for camming, but the hammer's hooks can be shortened and positive sear engagement reduced to eliminate camming of the fully cocked hammer.

"The cocking for each shot is effected by the trigger." That statement from the patent application is as simple as it gets.

The engineers who designed the Glock -and a room full of lawyers- undoubtedly wrote the patent application and Gaston Glock just signed the document.

Why invent a term like Safe-Action? Because Gaston Glock was and is a marketing genius. He made up a name, along with a narrative about multiple internal automatic safeties, to reassure bureaucrats worried about the absence of a manual safety. A reassuring, trademarked term to toss around also largely sidestepped using familiar terms to describe the trigger action ... because SA had a bad connotation to some people and DA had a bad connotation to others.

The Glock website is clear about what "Safe Action" is:

GLOCK pistols are equipped with the "Safe Action"® System, a fully automatic safety system consisting of three passive, independently operating, mechanical safeties, which sequentially disengage when the trigger is pulled and automatically reengage when the trigger is released.

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The Glock website also has this:

What is the action of a gun?
The action of the gun consists of all the moving parts that facilitate the loading, firing, discharging of the empty case, and unloading of the gun. There are two types of action:
1. Double-Action: A long trigger pull both cocks and releases the hammer/firing pin to fire the gun.
2. Single-Action: The trigger is used only to release the hammer/firing pin and does not cock the firing mechanism.

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