SR9C keyhole bullet strikes

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DonD

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FergusonTO35 said:
If it won't shoot that one perfectly then the pistol is for sure going back to Ruger.

Not meaning to be snippy here but if the gun shoots properly with commercial FMJ ball ammo which will be what Ruger test fires guns with, they may well not care at all about how your gun functions with lead handloads. Afterall, the owner's manual has a specific disclaimer about the use of handloads. Good luck. Don
 

Clovishound

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FergusonTO35 said:
Update: I put 25 rounds through the SR9C today, 3.4 grains IMR 700X under a 122 grain truncated cone with 1.055 OAL. The first few groups were awesome, nice little cloverleafs on point of aim. After that the groups opened up alot and I got some more keyholes, though not as many as last time.

While cleaning the pistol I noticed some streaks of lead in front of the chamber. That suggests to me the load has too much pressure for the bullet. I looked at Hodgdon's data and found that they list an OAL of 1.150. 700X is a fast powder and about the only one that can be found here. I've used 3.2/3.3 grains before no problem, maybe 3.4 with the shorter OAL is just too much for these slugs. I'll try my pet load of 3.5 grains Bullseye. If it won't shoot that one perfectly then the pistol is for sure going back to Ruger.

I'm certainly no expert, but it sure sounds like the accuracy/keyholing is a result of leading. Shoots good with a fresh/clean barrel. After a number of rounds, the lead builds up and ruins accuracy. I had to go to commercial hard cast with a medium speed powder, Universal was what I used. Titegroup seemed to make things worse.

I still get some leading with current recipe. Nothing affecting accuracy in a single range session, and nothing a thorough, normal cleaning would not remove.

I'm thinking about switching to plated bullets to make life easier. With the availability of pistol powder these days, I have to use what I can find, and that may not be cast friendly.

.38 spcl seems to be far less problematical when it comes to leading.
 

Cheesewhiz

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I don't cast bullets and probably never will. I do load and shoot a fair amount of them but mostly use some form of FMJ or Plated round nose in my reloads.

I have been loading "coated" hardcast bullets for quite awhile in 9mm, the coating cuts down on the smoke from lubes used with standard cast bullets as there is no lube used with these coatings. They probably help cut down the leading somewhat but I believe using a mid range burn powder has more likely helped in that department. Both of the brands of coated bullets that I use are cast to a relatively soft 16-17 brinell hardness and this is also a factor. SNS Casting and Bayou bullets are excellent casters and SNS also makes a full range of uncoated, lubed bullets also.

Here are some links to particular coated bullets that I use for 9mm:

http://www.snscasting.com/new-9mm-125-grain-round-nose-coated-1000ct/

http://www.bayoubullets.net/9mm-147-gr-fp-1000-ct/

I buy 124gr FMJ's from Montana Gold bullets that I buy in large quantities, so the price per bullet is about $0.09, the 124gr Coated I get from SNS works out to $0.068 if I only buy 1000 but I get a break for a larger quantity and the 147gr Coated from Bayou comes in at $0.075 per bullet also with a break for a larger order.
I really have stopped using standard hardcast bullets that are lubed for 9mm and only load standard hardcast/lubed for .45ACP and several different revolver rounds.
My life is easier because of this, I do screw around with a lot of other 9mm bullets (jacketed, hardcast, extruded lead and plated) just to try to come up with good loads or interesting failures but it's nice to have a good stable of constants that I know work always.

Not to tell you what to do but you might just want to cast for a more friendly round than the 9mm, you'll have more hair on your head at the end of the day.
 

modrifle3

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With the low cost of plates bullets I doubt I will ever shoot lead 9mm once this latest batch is done.
 

FergusonTO35

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Tried it out again today. Same charge of 700X with 124 grain FMJ resulted in really good accuracy. Tried and true 3.5 grains Bullseye/122 grain lead truncated cone resulted in somewhat worse accuracy with no keyholes. To be fair I was shooting other guns and my hands were kind of shaky. I'll clean it really good again and try a few other loads.

I understand the 9mm is not the most lead bullet friendly round out there, but it ain't the worst either. It has never presented me with any more problems than other rounds I've tried including .38 Special, .357 magnum, .32 Auto, .30 WCF, and .45-70. As mentioned before this pistol never keyholed until recently. So far everything indicates the keyholes were caused by some substandard bullets and a powder charge that didn't get along with my bullets. I really enjoy making and shooting cast bullets. The only gun I don't shoot cast in is my .257 Roberts. If at some point down the road I decide that the SR9C is not going to give me the results I want with cast bullets it will get traded/sold and replaced with something else. Will keep you posted!!
 

Jim Puke

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modrifle3 said:
What is chore boy?

Kitchen scouring pad that is available at most grocers and discount stores.

Just make sure to get the copper Chore Boy and not just the copper plated.

It is the best lead remover that I have used, when wrapped around a bore brush of appropriate caliber.
 

buckshotshorty

Single-Sixer
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Mar 10, 2008
Messages
399
modrifle3 said:
What is chore boy?
Chore boy is a copper scrungy thing used to clean pots and pans. Supermarkets sell them where you find Brillo and stuff.

Don't get a knock-0ff brand because they are steel. Copper won't damage your rifling. Look for the 100% copper on the box. Cut off a piece and wind it around an old worn bore brush. You'll see the lead shedding out of the bore.
 

FergusonTO35

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Update: it looks like the crappy bullets and too much 700X were the culprit here. Over the past week I've fired a bunch of my own lead bullets with 3.3 grains of 700X. No keyholing although accuracy is still better with jacketed bullets.

Overall I think that the SR9C would do way better with a 1:16 twist barrel. The 1:9, 1:10 or whatever it comes with does really well with jacketed bullets, which I understand most owners use. My Glock 19 has a Storm Lake 1:16 twist barrel and will shoot groups half the size with the same ammo at the same distance, all day long. Storm Lake told me they are considering making barrels for the SR series so if this is something you also would like to see, contact them and say so.
 

FergusonTO35

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Well this story has a happy ending. Went to the range with my buddy and his girlfriend, who has her CCW license hot off the press. She tried the SR9c and loved it, she can shoot it better than I can. We struck a deal and now it's hers. She will never shoot anything but jacketed factory ammo so it will be a good pistol for her.
 

dak109

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I realize I am late to this thread, but. Did the bullets you were using change? Were you using a Lee crimp die?
I had leading and key holing when I started loading cast 125 gr. RN 357 bullets for my SR9c. I found out, thanks to cast bool it's, the Lee factory crimp die was squeezing my bullets down in the case. I quit using the LFCD and accuracy is great. No leading. IIRC I am using 5.5gr of Power Pistol.
 

FergusonTO35

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Friend, the bullets that started the trouble were some old Speer 125 grain cast. From what I can tell they were too small, too soft, and had an ineffective dry coating lubricant. Too much IMR 700X made things worse. Backed off on the powder charge and used my own 122 grain .357 truncated cone bullets lubed with alox-beeswax and the problem went away. I don't even own a factory crimp die for 9mm. I personally think it is entirely unnecessary and maybe even detrimental to pistol rounds. Now, the FCD for rifle cartridges is great, way better than a standard roll crimp.
 

dak109

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Okay. I was just reliving my experiences with cast in my SR9c, and was curious about what bullets were used. It is my understanding that a lot of commercial cast are really too small to start with. The FCD sure fooled me too.

The plus side of casting my own is I get 9mm and 357 from the same mold. My SR9c really loves the cast bullets. Accurate and zero leading.
 

Cheesewhiz

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dak109 said:
I realize I am late to this thread, but. Did the bullets you were using change? Were you using a Lee crimp die?
I had leading and key holing when I started loading cast 125 gr. RN 357 bullets for my SR9c. I found out, thanks to cast bool it's, the Lee factory crimp die was squeezing my bullets down in the case. I quit using the LFCD and accuracy is great. No leading. IIRC I am using 5.5gr of Power Pistol.

I have used a Lee FCD in my press's last station for about three years for 9mm and .45 ACP and I love those dies. You have to dial them in properly and with my Hornady AP press it's real easy to keep them that way because with the lock and load set up and marking the dies with a paint pen I can index for the proper crimp. Those dies work great with every bullet that I use, glad I bought them.

 

FergusonTO35

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I can see the utility of the FCD for jacketed rounds. With cast rounds it tends to squeeze the bullet smaller when it resizes the case. For 9mm I often seat without crimping with the third die and then finish with a separate taper crimp die. Some bullets don't like to seat straight when seating and crimping in the same die and using a separate crimp die prevents it.
 

Cheesewhiz

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FergusonTO35 said:
I can see the utility of the FCD for jacketed rounds. With cast rounds it tends to squeeze the bullet smaller when it resizes the case. For 9mm I often seat without crimping with the third die and then finish with a separate taper crimp die. Some bullets don't like to seat straight when seating and crimping in the same die and using a separate crimp die prevents it.

I've never had that issue with cast or extruded lead bullets and my FCD's.
 

modrifle3

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Cheesewhiz said:
FergusonTO35 said:
I can see the utility of the FCD for jacketed rounds. With cast rounds it tends to squeeze the bullet smaller when it resizes the case. For 9mm I often seat without crimping with the third die and then finish with a separate taper crimp die. Some bullets don't like to seat straight when seating and crimping in the same die and using a separate crimp die prevents it.

I've never had that issue with cast or extruded lead bullets and my FCD's.

I have used taper crimps from Lee RCBS and Lyman and all in all I get the best results from Lyman using a fourth stage taper crimp.
 

Cheesewhiz

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modrifle3 said:
I have used taper crimps from Lee RCBS and Lyman and all in all I get the best results from Lyman using a fourth stage taper crimp.

I should explain what I do with my set up, I don't bell all that much as my seating die will line up the bullet so I only have to just barely get it started in the case. I also set my crimp ring in my seating die to make just slight contact with the rim and just crimp a tiny bit and the Lee FCD finishes the crimp fully. Hornady's seating dies have an extended telescoping sleeve that will align the bullet through out the seating process. I have no change in length from the seating die to the finished round using this method, none.

I believe that Ferg's issue is with his use of .357" sized bullets, I know some guys at Cast Boolits believe it's a great idea for 9mm but I don't and almost all reloading manuals also agree with me on this. I find it hilarious that some guys at CB's will preach everyone to get and read reloading manuals and then ignore them with their own advice. I've pointed out the use of oversized bullets doesn't cut down on leading and I'm right on this, especially with a semi-auto pistol.
 

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