New Remington R51

Shooter III · Feb 20, 2014

*** I realize this post is not about Ruger Center Fire Pistols ***
NOTE: This post was meant to be what I call "Bench Racing" that's where you and the guys sit around the workbench in the garage drinking a few beers and talking crap about how fast your 69 Camero is. Just bench racing guys !

I am chomping at the bit waiting for this sub-compact to come out in the .40 S&W, I'm thinking my Bersa .380 just might be put out to pasture ! R51 MSRP $389.00

>>> http://gunblast.com/Remington-R51.htm <<<

AND ...

>>> http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/01/remington-r51-9mm-gun-review8/ <<<

drfarth · Feb 20, 2014

I'll wait for them to work out any bugs that I'm sure will crop up in the first batch. Very interesting handgun, though, and the street price is expected to be at that magic sub-$400 price point.

Mike J · Feb 20, 2014

drfarth said:
I'll wait for them to work out any bugs that I'm sure will crop up in the first batch. Very interesting handgun, though, and the street price is expected to be at that magic sub-$400 price point.

I agree this looks like a very interesting design. I kinda want one but I'm not in any hurry to be a beta tester either. I'll watch to see what the reviews are like in a year after these have been out in circulation for a while.

22/45 Fan · Feb 20, 2014

Have you ever fired a .40 S&W in a small, lightweight pistol? It's not fun.

Shooter III · Feb 20, 2014

22/45 Fan said:
Have you ever fired a .40 S&W in a small, lightweight pistol? It's not fun.

Sort of ... And let me ask you this >> DID YOU READ how the pistol is designed to handle muzzle flip and recoil ? If not take a look at this >>> http://therock.remington.com/firearm_ModelR51.php#.UwaHroXVGCg <<<

I have shot my friends PX4Storm sub-compact in a .40 S&W and it was not hard to handle, some of the worst handguns I've shot are the little pocket pistols in a .380, the R51 is not a pocket pistol, but a sub-compact. Anyway ... My son is a Range Officer at my local gun range, as soon as they get a few I'll be able to run a few rounds through one and see if I like it before I plunk down my $$$.

NOTE: This post was meant to be what I call "Bench Racing" that's where you and the guys sit around the workbench in the garage drinking a few beers and talking crap about how fast your 69 Camero is. Just bench racing !

revhigh · Feb 21, 2014

Shooter III said:
22/45 Fan said:

Have you ever fired a .40 S&W in a small, lightweight pistol? It's not fun.

Click to expand...

Sort of ... And let me ask you this >> DID YOU READ how the pistol is designed to handle muzzle flip and recoil ? If not take a look at this >>> http://therock.remington.com/firearm_ModelR51.php#.UwaHroXVGCg <<<

I have shot my friends PX4Storm sub-compact in a .40 S&W and it was not hard to handle, some of the worst handguns I've shot are the little pocket pistols in a .380, the R51 is not a pocket pistol, but a sub-compact. Anyway ... My son is a Range Officer at my local gun range, as soon as they get a few I'll be able to run a few rounds through one and see if I like it before I plunk down my $$$.

NOTE: This post was meant to be what I call "Bench Racing" that's where you and the guys sit around the workbench in the garage drinking a few beers and talking crap about how fast your 69 Camero is. Just bench racing !

Physics is physics ..... Big boom .... Small lightweight gun .... Equals uncomfortable and difficult to shoot well .... No getting around it .... What's Remington gonna say ? This gun hurts to shoot it ?

Don't be gullible.

REV

Shooter III · Feb 21, 2014

Physics is physics ..... Big boom .... Small lightweight gun .... Equals uncomfortable and difficult to shoot well .... No getting around it .... What's Remington gonna say ? This gun hurts to shoot it ?

Don't be gullible.

Interesting that your telling me not to be gullible .... does physics not play a part in the way a AR or 50 BMG handles recoil, don't be ignorant.
AND .... as I said above I am going to shoot one before I plunk down 389 bones

revhigh · Feb 21, 2014

Not sure why you're comparing a lightweight small pistol to several rifles, but whatever you need to do is fine. Test firing one is a great idea.

REV

WAYNO · Feb 21, 2014

22/45 Fan said:
Have you ever fired a .40 S&W in a small, lightweight pistol? It's not fun.

Yep, and it is what it is. I cannot imagine a smaller, lighter .40 cal pistol than the S&W Shield, and it's doable for anybody that wants it to be so.

If a guy is recoil sensitive enough to worry, then I s'pose he shouldn't be looking at any small handgun in .40.

There is no free ride. :mrgreen:

WAYNO.

DonD · Feb 21, 2014

I think MSRP is now $420. Had hoped it would be shorter than the 6.6" but it does seem like an interesting gun. Don

Shooter III · Feb 21, 2014

revhigh said:
Not sure why you're comparing a lightweight small pistol to several rifles, but whatever you need to do is fine. Test firing one is a great idea.

REV

What I am getting at is there are different ways to manufacture stuff, an AR has a gas tube / recoil buffer system. So there are options to handle recoil in rifles. And the same hold true for pistols ... I don't deal well with people that have closed minds and just blurted out "it will never work" .... thinking of possibilities outside the box took us to the moon, came up with things like the AR -15 system ... so I believe it is possible Remington came up with something that has possibilities

22/45 Fan · Feb 21, 2014

Shooter III said:
What I am getting at is there are different ways to manufacture stuff, an AR has a gas tube / recoil buffer system. So there are options to handle recoil in rifles. And the same hold true for pistols ... I don't deal well with people that have closed minds and just blurted out "it will never work" .... thinking of possibilities outside the box took us to the moon, came up with things like the AR -15 system ... so I believe it is possible Remington came up with something that has possibilities

Do you work for Remington? Are you on the R51 marketing team? Otherwise what you are saying makes no sense.

Remington has just taken a design from the early 20th century and modernized it a bit. It is a modified lock breech gun just like dozens and dozens of other pistol designs previous and current. There is no magic recoil absorption system or anything that modifies or avoids the laws of motion.

Closed minds? "It will never work"? All we are saying is that a small, light pistol in 40 S&W is going to recoil hard. Sure it will work, but it will kick a lot while doing it. What's closed minded or dismissive about that?

Shooter III · Feb 21, 2014

22/45 Fan said:
Shooter III said:

What I am getting at is there are different ways to manufacture stuff, an AR has a gas tube / recoil buffer system. So there are options to handle recoil in rifles. And the same hold true for pistols ... I don't deal well with people that have closed minds and just blurted out "it will never work" .... thinking of possibilities outside the box took us to the moon, came up with things like the AR -15 system ... so I believe it is possible Remington came up with something that has possibilities

Click to expand...

Do you work for Remington? Are you on the R51 marketing team? Otherwise what you are saying makes no sense.

Remington has just taken a design from the early 20th century and modernized it a bit. It is a modified lock breech gun just like dozens and dozens of other pistol designs previous and current. There is no magic recoil absorption system or anything that modifies or avoids the laws of motion.

Closed minds? "It will never work"? All we are saying is that a small, light pistol in 40 S&W is going to recoil hard. Sure it will work, but it will kick a lot while doing it. What's closed minded or dismissive about that?

Has anyone here shot a R51 yet .... I don't think so ! My whole intent with this post was just to talk about it, shoot it when its available and see if I like .... I still stand firm that some of you refuse to believe that there is a possibility it won't be as bad as you think ..... You're just dead set on your belief .... Grrrrrr .40 Grrrrr recoil hard Grrrrr Bad !!!!! So run with it

Snake45 · Feb 21, 2014

Very good and thorough writeup of the gun in the current issue of Guns & Ammo. In fact, one of the better new gun reviews I've read in that rag in the last decade. :shock:

Can hardly wait to see what my friend Mas Ayoob has to say about it--he'll prolly be writing it up for either Guns or American Handgunner.

Shooter III · Feb 21, 2014

Snake45 said:
Very good and thorough writeup of the gun in the current issue of Guns & Ammo. In fact, one of the better new gun reviews I've read in that rag in the last decade. :shock:

Can hardly wait to see what my friend Mas Ayoob has to say about it--he'll prolly be writing it up for either Guns or American Handgunner.

Ayoob is da' Man .... I'll have to go read it. After I end up shooting a R51, if I like it I'll plunk the cash down on one, ultimately I'd like to replace my Bersa .380 and go with just one caliber of pistols to simplify ammo purchase .... I like having choices when I carry and I hope the R51 will satisfy my want in a sub-compact.

Al James · Feb 22, 2014

I'm not overly excited about the new r51 but figured I would chime in with my .02 anyways. Even though some of the resident "experts" here usually discount my opinion immediately without any attempt at critical thinking here it goes:

Shooter III is not gullible....he's simply acknowledging the obvious differences in how any said firearms design reduces or eliminates recoil. The operating system of a firearm directly affects the felt recoil. His metaphorical use of a 50 BMG and AR15 are both completely relevant. Designers have devised ways to lessen or completely eliminate recoil using mechanical advantage. If all variables are removed (weight, muzzle brakes, etc) A locked breech single shot will recoil the most as all of the cartridges energy is directed towards the shooter (think TC encore). A blowback action whether direct or delayed, while less than a single shot, will still transfer quite a bit of recoil straight back to the operator (think Sig 232) A recoil operated Browning type swinging link setup really begins to tame felt recoil and was a huge advance in recoil management( think 1911) Then consider other systems such as Ruger's own camblock system or the Magnum research desert eagle which is a gas operated rotating bolt. Of course there are other variables such as bore axis height, overall weight, slide weight, recoil spring weight, etc. But to deny that the mechanical design of a firearm does not directly affect felt recoil is to ignore the facts of the matter.

I'm not saying the R51 is the pistol version of the recoilless rifle, but if a design team sets out to design a pistol with less felt recoil than what were all accustomed to, in a lightweight pistol...it can be done. Of course you can only deny physics to a certain degree so a small gripped, lightweight 40 cal is still going to recoil its just a matter if it will be a "slighty snappy push" or a "my hand is bleeding and I want my mommy big punch". How much less felt recoil a particular design can offer is up for debate but ultimately the proof will be in the shooting. I'm looking forward to any new designs from ANY manufacturer that offer us a lower recoiling pistol. Especially if its a little 40, which have always been too much for some people to handle effectively. Just my .02.

Shooter III · Feb 22, 2014

Al James said:
I'm not overly excited about the new r51 but figured I would chime in with my .02 anyways. Even though some of the resident "experts" here usually discount my opinion immediately without any attempt at critical thinking here it goes:

Shooter III is not gullible....he's simply acknowledging the obvious differences in how any said firearms design reduces or eliminates recoil. The operating system of a firearm directly affects the felt recoil. His metaphorical use of a 50 BMG and AR15 are both completely relevant. Designers have devised ways to lessen or completely eliminate recoil using mechanical advantage. If all variables are removed (weight, muzzle brakes, etc) A locked breech single shot will recoil the most as all of the cartridges energy is directed towards the shooter (think TC encore). A blowback action whether direct or delayed, while less than a single shot, will still transfer quite a bit of recoil straight back to the operator (think Sig 232) A recoil operated Browning type swinging link setup really begins to tame felt recoil and was a huge advance in recoil management( think 1911) Then consider other systems such as Ruger's own camblock system or the Magnum research desert eagle which is a gas operated rotating bolt. Of course there are other variables such as bore axis height, overall weight, slide weight, recoil spring weight, etc. But to deny that the mechanical design of a firearm does not directly affect felt recoil is to ignore the facts of the matter.

I'm not saying the R51 is the pistol version of the recoilless rifle, but if a design team sets out to design a pistol with less felt recoil than what were all accustomed to, in a lightweight pistol...it can be done. Of course you can only deny physics to a certain degree so a small gripped, lightweight 40 cal is still going to recoil its just a matter if it will be a "slighty snappy push" or a "my hand is bleeding and I want my mommy big punch". How much less felt recoil a particular design can offer is up for debate but ultimately the proof will be in the shooting. I'm looking forward to any new designs from ANY manufacturer that offer us a lower recoiling pistol. Especially if its a little 40, which have always been too much for some people to handle effectively. Just my .02.

Thank you ! nicely written, you did a far better job of making the point then I did.

Using barrel porting as an example to handle the effect of recoil and muzzle flip, here is my Long drawn out true story, just to continue my point that certain things can be done to handle said effects: When my son wanted to learn to shoot and carry a pistol concealed I told him I would pay for his first Concealed Carry Permit and I did several things, I explained that with a good grip, decent stance you will be able to handle anything, how each particular weapon behaves and how it feels during shooting is another story. first I made him read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme" and then I taught him how to operate several different styles of pistols, a good grip, and a modified Weaver Stance. During our last Range session before I set him free I rented a five shot .500 S&W with a 4 inch "ported" barrel, keep in mind revolvers tend to have a high bore axis and the ballistics on these on crazy ! Before the Range Officer let me take it to the shooting lane he asked if I have ever shot a Five Hundred before .... I said NO ! He said I need you to do a few things then, it has a light trigger so single action it only, when you get ready to make it go BANG leave your trigger finger out of the trigger well, lean into the pistol a wee bit, cock it, and slowly pull the trigger and due to the barrel porting the recoil is going to come straight back into you hand with almost Zero muzzle flip, Anyway I shot 3 rounds and my son shot 2, on our drive home we both talked about how EZ the 500 was to handle and we laughed a little about the fact the web of our hand felt a little sore. so to come full circle once again I am excited to see if the R51 lives up to what Remington says and if I purchase one I realize this is not a pistol that you'll want to target shoot with for a few hours, its a sub-compact for self-defense use. Also .... if you choose to comment try to respect the fact I'll honor a good intelligent heated debate and I have little tolerance for narrow-minded argumentative attitudes.

Mike J · Feb 22, 2014

Shooter III you might be interested in checking out this review. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/foghorn/gun-review-remington-r51/
There are some things he doesn't like about it. I tend not to pay too much attention to some reviewers. Especially if they have never met a gun they didn't like. I prefer to wait until people on the forum boards have them & see what their observations are.

Ale-8(1) · Feb 22, 2014

Personal observation . . .

I really, really liked the original 51. Had opportunity to work with one many years ago, and it was a lotta fun . . . and a definitely old-school-classy pistol. Wish I had one.

This thing is NOT a 51. It shares certain similarities in design, but it would appear the execution lacks in several ways. It's yet another smallish pistol in a sea of "new, improved" smallish pistols. If Remington can smooth out some less-than-wonderful bits, it may sell a few.

Your money, your choice. I don't need one.

JMHO

Shooter III · Feb 22, 2014

Mike J said:
Shooter III you might be interested in checking out this review. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/02/foghorn/gun-review-remington-r51/
There are some things he doesn't like about it. I tend not to pay too much attention to some reviewers. Especially if they have never met a gun they didn't like. I prefer to wait until people on the forum boards have them & see what their observations are.

LOL !!!!! Well there ya go, women and guns ... ya never know what you'll get until you run a few rounds through them, that's the first upfront honest review I've seen on this weapon, I'm beginning to lose hope.

Thanks !

New Remington R51

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