Greater stopping power. There had to be a reason that so many law enforcement agencies switched from 9mm to 40S&W.
9mm or .40 in a subcompact?
- Thread starter RaisinRiverRon
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MountainWalker
Single-Sixer
I feel that with the new ammo like the Critical Duty 135 grain, the 9mm Luger is a viable defense load. This test is interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZFZFmBKa0 Of course the 40SW & 45ACP are even better. Still in my head is the training at Gunsite when Jeff Cooper explained that an important element was to use a "Major Caliber" such as his favorite the 45ACP. While the 45ACP might be better, advances in ammo design have upgraded the 9mm.
There are other factors to being armed and carrying concealed, these are just a few that some may consider as important as caliber choice:
1. Don't shoot yourself or someone else by accident.
2. Do you have a good criminal attorney lined up, if have to use your gun the lawyer costs starts a $15K for a perfectly legal and reasonable shooting.
3. Where am I going and how can I avoid and minimize risky encounters.
There are other factors to being armed and carrying concealed, these are just a few that some may consider as important as caliber choice:
1. Don't shoot yourself or someone else by accident.
2. Do you have a good criminal attorney lined up, if have to use your gun the lawyer costs starts a $15K for a perfectly legal and reasonable shooting.
3. Where am I going and how can I avoid and minimize risky encounters.
And use a revolver so that there are no shell casings on the ground with your fingerprints?
MountainWalker
Single-Sixer
Yes Vito and we have loyal friends who when called ask two questions. Where shall I meet you? Do you want me to bring a shovel? 
Just wanted to return the chuckle I got when I read your post.
Just wanted to return the chuckle I got when I read your post.
To Mountain Walker: Seriously, where did the figure of $15K for a lawyer come from? I was looking into concealed carry legal insurance and have yet to find anything that seems reasonable. To pay an annual fee to an organization that does not commit to supporting you, i.e., they review the case and then decide if you are worthy of support, does not seem very reassuring. And one firm that advertises a lot, Concealed Carry US (or something similar; right now I don't fully recall the name) appeared worthwhile for about a $200 annual fee, but when I inquired about their "top criminal lawyers in America" that they use, the only attorney in my city was one who advertises himself as a "wills and trust specialist" (not exactly who you want advising and defending you in a possibly fatal self defense shooting situation). I am still hoping to find some reasonable way to have a qualified attorney reasonably available should I ever need one after a self defense shooting, but I am not optimistic.
MountainWalker
Single-Sixer
Vito: Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq is a Orlando, FL attorney who has written extensively on the subject. His book "Florida Firearms Law, Use and Ownership" is used by some Florida police and sheriff academies to explain firearms law to new LEO. He mentioned $15K casually as the cost for a totally correct and justified shooting without any complications. Often the actual cost is much more if their are any issues or you make a mistake, like telling the police the wrong thing. If something doesn't look right and the police arrest and charge you, an attorney is going to have some serious "billable hours" to present you. The alternative is to risk being sent to prison and then you realize that competence is what you want and damn the expense. My niece recently opened her own law firm in Seattle and we talked about fees in criminal cases and it really just depends on how much time your case takes. When your attorney goes to court on your behalf you are going "billable hours" for all that time, plus time preparing for your case. You can see how quickly 30, 50, 100, hours can add up. At that average national rate 100 hours will add up to $ 28,400 The attorney that I recently used to work an estate issue charges $250 per hour and let me off the hook for only a few hours for our issue. His fees are very reasonable and I got a bargain because I know him socially and it was a simple matter for him. Here is a little article since you are interested: http://www.rocketlawyer.com/article/how-much-do-lawyers-cost.rl
I would avoid a shooting incident like the plague and would only shoot when other options simply not available to me. There are however some situations which simply require an armed response to survive and then you worry about legal and financial issues later.
I would avoid a shooting incident like the plague and would only shoot when other options simply not available to me. There are however some situations which simply require an armed response to survive and then you worry about legal and financial issues later.
Big performance differences in short barrels. Best load by far in 9mm short barrel is Federal HST. Critical Defense outperformed Critical Duty in short barrrel. Check out "shooting the bull" on you tube for testing. Superior performing 9mm will outperform poor performance bullet in .40 S&W in short barrel.
MountainWalker
Single-Sixer
It would be most helpful if you provided a tag(copy and then paste to support your comment) for the exact you tube you are talking about. Is this the test you are talking about? Looks impressive! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0kwh said:
My SIL has a S&W 69??(40 cal compact 3.5"+/-). It is VERY obnoxious to shoot. He's a big guy and it got the best of him. He now carries an XDM compact 9mm.
vito said:
Agreed ... Given good shot placement and quality ammunition .... All 3 are very effective calibers for civilian use ... Although I would have included 9mm in your list, and not .40 .... They're not nearly effective enough for the typical mall ninja's requirements though ... Armed with his first or second gun, a stack of gun magazines, and the Internet.
REV
revhigh said:Agreed ... Given good shot placement and quality ammunition .... All 3 are very effective calibers for civilian use ... Although I would have included 9mm in your list, and not .40 .... They're not nearly effective enough for the typical mall ninja's requirements though ... Armed with his first or second gun, a stack of gun magazines, and the Internet.
REV
Especially the Internet. :wink:
Where can I buy the "official" Mall Ninja vest to wear with my camo pants, Glock baseball cap, large hunting knife on my belt and wear-all-the-time shooting glasses?
