LEOs going back to 9mm?

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8382

Really? Can't say I agree with all his assessments, but he does note that agencies are starting to go back to 9mm (many of them never left. I.E. NYPD)

Interesting. I can't say that I look forward to the many caliber debates that will come as a result of this trend. I don't intend to follow the trend personally. I like my .40 and enjoy shooting it and I suppose its just as good as it was, if and when it becomes unfashionable.

Maybe some years from now it will be looked at somewhat like the .38 special is today. Yesterdays news. Suits me fine.

My finance has the HK P2000 in .40 through LE. Yes, it is more about the recoil than anything else. She dearly misses her Glock 9mm. Personally I love that HK and hope they give her the option to buy it if they ever go back!

Ammunition cost is a major issue. The 9mm is so poplular amongst the common person that it's ammo price is much, much lower than the others. But with so many LEOs switching back it may be harder to get in the future.

Most cops I have met (I worked in LE for 6 years) are not gun enthusiasts nor do they practice much. The .40 in a light poly frame gun is hard to hold on to for many people, myself included. If an agency is only going to authorize one caliber I think it makes sense to issue one that most people can learn to shoot well. Agencies in KY are pretty much married to the .40, the only agencies I know of that use it are those that authorize more than one caliber.

Is it also true that the FBI has gone back to 45acp?

Personally, I think any of the common self defense calibers (9mm, 40s&w, 38 special, 45acp, even 380acp) will do the trick if needed. Maybe even 22lr, but I just feel better with something bigger.

I'd like to see police go back to the 38spl. revolver tired of hearing how they executed someone again (including children with toy guns) using all 9 rounds from a semi-auto, they have shown it's to much fire power for them, save the semi-auto for the swat team not for the patrolman.

Sheriffs Depts around here switched last year from 40 to 45.

Mo State Troopers still carry G22s.

6gun said:

I'd like to see police go back to the 38spl. revolver tired of hearing how they executed someone again (including children with toy guns) using all 9 rounds from a semi-auto, they have shown it's to much fire power for them, save the semi-auto for the swat team not for the patrolman.

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That has to be one of the most incredibly ignorant posts it has been my displeasure to read in years. It shows you have no idea of modern LE needs. :roll:

I still can't get over the irony. After all that, the 10mm, the .40 s&w, I guess you could add the .357 sig to that. The years of testing, arguments, marketing, research. Things are back at the 9mm again. For some anyway.

And just as surely as we sit here something years from now will once again appear between the 9mm and 45acp claiming to be the ideal caliber. How exhausting.

Boge said:

6gun said:

I'd like to see police go back to the 38spl. revolver tired of hearing how they executed someone again (including children with toy guns) using all 9 rounds from a semi-auto, they have shown it's to much fire power for them, save the semi-auto for the swat team not for the patrolman.

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That has to be one of the most incredibly ignorant posts it has been my displeasure to read in years. It shows you have no idea of modern LE needs. :roll:

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If any post is ignorant it is yours. There is nothing ignorant about what he said. You may disagree with his logic but it certainly is based on current events. Consider the 57 rounds fired into the back of a pickup truck because it resembled the one driven by a crazy cop in the LA area. Thank G-d the two innocent women in the truck were unhurt.

Boge said:

6gun said:

I'd like to see police go back to the 38spl. revolver tired of hearing how they executed someone again (including children with toy guns) using all 9 rounds from a semi-auto, they have shown it's to much fire power for them, save the semi-auto for the swat team not for the patrolman.

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That has to be one of the most incredibly ignorant posts it has been my displeasure to read in years. It shows you have no idea of modern LE needs. :roll:

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No reason to insult my opinion if you don't agree, just from watching the news it's plan to see what the modern LE don't need.

I do not claim to be an expert on LEO's behavior, but when my son was with a major Midwestern city police force he told me about the reality that a good percentage of his fellow officers never fired their guns except when it was required to qualify, that the standards for qualification were a joke (hitting a large target area at only a few yards distance). He told me about one female officer who was so uncomfortable with carrying her Glock in condition 1 that she often kept an empty magazine in the firearm and hoped that the supervising Sergeant didn't discover what she was doing. My son added that while it might surprise most gun enthusiasts, his experience was that most LEO's were not gun enthusiasts and were not proficient in the use of their service weapon. So the idea that maybe some police forces were putting too powerful or two complex a weapon into the hands of their officers is not necessarily too far fetched.

Rei40c said:

And just as surely as we sit here something years from now will once again appear between the 9mm and 45acp claiming to be the ideal caliber. How exhausting.

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Agreed ... And it'll be just as stupid of an idea as the 40 and 357 Sig were.


REV

vito said:

most LEO's were not gun enthusiasts and were not proficient in the use of their service weapon. So the idea that maybe some police forces were putting too powerful or two complex a weapon into the hands of their officers is not necessarily too far fetched.

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Completely agree !

Most cops I've seen shoot couldn't hit the broad side of a barn ... From INSIDE the barn .... With all the doors and windows closed. We watch them qualify at my gun club, an most of them are truly scary, and most certainly shouldn't be carrying a firearm. The less ammunition in their weapon ... The safer the public is.

REV

After my own time spent working for an agency I would concur with 6gun, Vito, and Revhigh. Most officers are, if anything, oversupplied with weaponry and undersupplied with things like training in the law and pay raises. I'm amazed at some of the hardware that agencies waste money on, or receive free as federal LE welfare. Armored humvees, MP5 submachineguns, M4 carbines festooned with tacticool hardware, upgrade the whole agency from generation 3 Glocks that are less than 10 years old to generation 4. My previous agency had all of this stuff but hadn't given anyone a raise in 4 years.

A variety of opinions!!

My only experience w/ this was when we were going to let a local dept use the new club gange. A member from the next club over cautioned --DONT DO IT!!! The will ruin your range?/ I dont know how it ever turned out.

I've seen enough videos on Youtube on a cruiser camera showing an LEO firing multiple shots at almost point blank range and obviously not hitting the target. Makes you think.

Just about all the departments in this area use either .40 caliber Glocks or M&P's with the exception of the Georgia State Patrol. The GSP uses Glocks in .45 GAP of all things (not saying there is anything wrong with the caliber it is just an uncommon chambering that basically mimics .45 ACP) Personally I don't care what LEO's use. I shoot & carry what I like.

Make no mistake, I have alot of respect for individual cops, especially those at small, threadbare agencies. Most of them are good people with a desire to protect others. It's the boneheaded things their departments do that are so irritating. The money and resources they waste on toys would be far better spent on training, better pay, and hiring more people. If they are so obsessed with firepower, how about build a little range and mandate periodic target practice outside of regular qualifying? That would be alot cheaper and more effective. Heck, they could then go back to six shot .38's and still be ahead of the curve.