Glock G20SF review

After many years of waiting, the stars aligned and last Saturday I broke down and bought a new Glock 20SF 10mm. I have been a fan of the 10mm since I saw the 1989 Buyers Guide issue of Guns and Ammo when the Colt Delta Elite and the Smith and Wesson 1006 were both brand new. (Disclaimer: I dont really know if it was 1989, but that is close enough for our purposes).

Back then I was not even into my teens but I knew I wanted one. Its taken quite a while but I finally have my 10mm. Part of me still wants a shiny new Delta Elite, but the greater part of me says the Glock is better deal. The greater magazine capacity, and lower sticker price ($579 vs $800+) coupled with accuracy that is on par with the Delta sold me. I considered the Tanfoglio but couldn't find one in southern Maine so I went with the Glock. Good thing too, because when I told my shooting buddy (My cousin Cliff) that I was getting a 10mm he rushed right out to Stone's Gun shop to order one too. Unfortunately for him it seems that I got the last one in the state. Apparently the G20SF is out of stock with the regional distributor or something like that.

So, here it is....

Its square, black and has a purposeful look. Typical Glock. I do like how low it sits in your hand. The Bore axis on this is probably a quarter of an inch lower than on my P85MKII. With the mild loads we were shooting the G20 has significantly LESS recoil and snap to it than Cliff's Smith&Wesson M&P .40. The M&P is slimmer in the grip, and more comfortable too but it slaps you harder than the Glock. I will be curious to see how hot you have to load the Glock to make it buck like the lighter M&P. My old reliable P85 is naturally softer shooting than either of the bigger bore guns.


Once I had the gun I figured that if I was in for a penny I was in for a pound so I ordered dies for my Dillon SDB, 1000ct of starline brass, and an assortment of bullets in weights from 135gr to 180gr, a new Blackhawk Serpa holster, a Lone Wolf barrel, and the Lone Wolf 3.5lb connector.

The connector and reloading supplies havent arrived yet, but I did get a hundred rounds of Federal American Eagle 180gr FMJ ammo to test it out. This ammo is not what you would call full-house 10mm. In fact its not all that hot compared to some of the faster 40S&W loads. But, it was reasonably priced and my credit card was already hot to the touch, so I figured it would have to be enough for a preliminary try-out.

The Lone Wolf Barrel arrived promptly on Thursday. I got the LW barrel because I have heard that the std Glock barrels have insufficient support for the case head and that this can cause KaBooms when using reloads. I had a rather dramatic demonstration of this a few weeks back at the ACF&GA range when one of our members had his Glock .40cal blow its top during the Saturday morning plate shoot.

:shock:
This guy is an experienced handloader too. The moral to this story is watch your powder charges and keep a close eye on your brass...and wear your eye protection :!:

He escaped any serious injury, but it sure got his attention. I saw him last weekend trying out his new CZ (Phantom I think). He was just there to get it 'on paper'. His first shot was high left and he then proceeded to put four or five shots into a group the size of a golf ball (at about 20yds). Seems the internets are right about CZ's being accurate.

Anyway being the prudent fellow I am, I was keen to avoid this same fate (the Kaboom not the CZ) so I ordered the LWD barrel because of the good things I have heard about their chamber support. It also helps that they are reasonably priced at about $110. When I got the LW barrel I immediately put it side by side with my stock Glock barrel and compared the chamber support.


I'll be darned if I can tell the difference in the chamber support just by looking. In fact the stock Glock barrel doesnt look all that bad in the chamber-support department. Cliff says that his calibrated Machinist's eyeball tells him that the LW has about 5 or 6 thousandths more support. I can't tell the difference. This had me a little worried that I might have wasted my 110$ until today when we put the calipers to both barrels and checked to see how tight each was.

this is the original Glock barrel.


And this is the LWD barrel...


As you can see, the chamber on the LW barrel is measurably tighter. This was confirmed by further measurements and inspection of the fired brass. The Glock brass had a visible bulge, not the infamous Glock Smiley Face, but just a slight bulge about two thirds of the way down the case from the mouth. I don't think you can see it in the pictures, and I am not sure that this would be an issue when reloading the brass, but it seems worth noting.

This is the brass from the Glock barrel:


vs the brass fired thru the Lone Wolf barrel.


As I said, I didn't have a lot of ammo on hand so I wasn't really shooting for its-bitsy groups. I did have one five shot group that was about 3in or so, but I didn't take a picture, so you will have to take my word about that. Cliff was able to do a little better after he got a feel for the trigger and was keeping them in about a 2.5in circle.
I had no malfunctions of any kind but Cliff had a few FTF's where the gun didn't go completely into battery. Easily solved by a quick tap on the back of the slide. This may have had something to do with the LW barrel having a tighter chamber, or it might not have. As the saying goes "it's hard telling, not knowing."

Thats about it for now. I will probably get back in a week or two after I have a chance to make up some reloads and get some more trigger time. Until then, here are a few more pictures for your viewing pleasure.




and Cliff's new Zombie gun...This is what he bought when he found out he couldnt get a G20...

Excellent report and great pics ! Now THIS is the way a report on a new gun should be !

Where did you get your LW barrel for 110 if you don't mind saying ? At that price I'll pick one up just to be safe when shooting lead.

I also didn;t see much difference between the unsupported area of the LS vs the Glock. I don't think the chamber variance is that important except for making the GLock barrel a little more forgiving for slightly out of tolerance ammo.

Did you see a difference in accuracy between the two barrels ?

Congrats on a great gun ! Makes me want to shoot my 20 tommorrow. I think I will, and reload a bit as well with some nice warm loads.

Please let me know where you got that barrel !

PS just did a little research. $110 is the STANDARD MSRP ? WOW !

REV

Thanks Rev!

I got the barrel from straight from Lone Wolf Distributors.

http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=943&CAT=238

I didnt see any difference between the stock barrel and the LW barrel, but I have only fired five shots thru the original barrel, so I really cant say if one is better than the other.

BTW, LWD has .40S&W, and .357 Sig barrels for the G20. I am tempted to get a .40 barrel just to have in my tackle box in case I run out of 10mm ammo. I can always run over to Wal Mart and get .40 cal ammo...

As Rev said, excellent report and pics. Thanks. Very interesting. It seems to me that the support issue is about the same with both barrels though.

The area of concern, as I understand it, is the half-moon shaped area where the feed ramp meets the casing, not the diameter of the chamber. As you said, not a whole lot of difference to be seen.

Go over to glocktalk and check out the 25 cent trigger job, AKA a fluff & buff job. A Glock is stupid easy to detail strip. Just remember to put a drop of oil where the connector meets the trigger bar. Ask me how I know.

sargents1,
The main thing(s) to be concerned with about your glock going kaboom are.
Well used brass, the more the brass is sized, shot (explanded) and sized down again raises your chances of kaboom. Due to the glock chambers being on the large side doesn't help with the over expansion of the cases.
Hot loads also take their toll on case life. Which is a concern with a 10mm.
Another thing, which isn't an issue now that you have a new barrel is shooting lead in a stock glock barrel.
Being careful with your brass will keep happily shooting your glock for many 1000's of rounds. I know I have a 2nd gen 23 with north og 50,000 rounds threw it and no issues of kaboom. KNOCK ON WOOD! LOL

Sargent, sure appreciate that review. I am planning on getting one of these myself.

ArmedinAZ said:

The area of concern, as I understand it, is the half-moon shaped area where the feed ramp meets the casing, not the diameter of the chamber. As you said, not a whole lot of difference to be seen.

Go over to glocktalk and check out the 25 cent trigger job, AKA a fluff & buff job. A Glock is stupid easy to detail strip. Just remember to put a drop of oil where the connector meets the trigger bar. Ask me how I know.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I have heard the horror stories about the Glock Smily Faces stamped into the brass from the unsupported area near the feed ramp. But I think that the Glock chamber being cut on the generous side doesnt help the brass life.

I plan on using only new brass for hot loads, or buying factory hotloads from Double Tap and Buffalo Bore. My reloads I will keep about 10-20% below max and watch my brass for any signs of stretching. I dont plan on trying to get lots and lots of reloads out of the brass. I figure if I can get four or five cycles out of a piece of brass I will be satisfied. Time will tell.

I dont really plan on shooting plain lead in this gun but it is nice to know that it is an option. I figure the plated bullets are a better choice for keeping airborne lead in check...I reload in my basement and we have one Little One already and another on the way. Best to shoot up the lead I have and replace it with plated.

As for Trigger Jobs, I find the trigger on this gun to be fine. I did order the 3.5lb connector because it was $11.49. At that price, it doesnt really matter if I like it or not because if I dont like it, I can happily throw it away and I will only be out a little more than ten bucks. Speaking of triggers, when you compare the G20 to my P85 I would say that the P85 is crisper (in SA) than the Glock, but the Glock has less over travel. Actually it has less travel all around.

So far I would say I shoot both guns about the same, at least in rough numbers. I dont have enough time with the new glock to say with certainty.

This is a great review...Thanks.

I have been mulling over getting a LW barrel so that I can pop it in both my 23 and 27 to shoot lead. $110 may very well be a good investment once I run out of jacketed and start casting up .400 bullets.

sargents1 said:

I figure the plated bullets are a better choice for keeping airborne lead in check...I reload in my basement and we have one Little One already and another on the way. Best to shoot up the lead I have and replace it with plated.

Click to expand...

Here's a pair of pennies.

I am not sure I understand your concern about reloading lead bullets in the basement. The real hazards you have regarding lead (assuming you don't have an indoor range in your house) is residues containing lead in spent cases and a little one playing with brass or lead bullets. Using a dry tumbler to clean the cases generates dust that has those residues. The handling hazard is both ingesting the projectiles as well as putting fingers in the mouth our food after handling brass or bullets. We as adults face the same hazard and it is addressed by washing our hands after handling.

You may as well add powder and primers to your list. Eating those is not healthy for a child either.

I think cleaning our guns in the house presents a higher potential hazard (not lead, but solvents in the air) than reloading using lead projectiles (or relading, period). Lead bullets don't give off lead gas. Seating and crimping lead bullets does not generate lead gas or dust.

The same precautions we use for cleaners (bleach, oven cleaner, etc) applied to reloading components will safeguard our kids and grandkids (I have my grandson 30+ hrs per week as both parents work day shift). I reload in the house and cast lead alloys in the garage.

The lead hazards we face as reloaders and high volume shooters are:
1. inhaled brass tumbler dust
2. lead picked up from handling bullets and cases, then not washing our hands
3. primer residue inhaled when shooting at indoor ranges.

Iron Mike Golf said:

sargents1 said:

I figure the plated bullets are a better choice for keeping airborne lead in check...I reload in my basement and we have one Little One already and another on the way. Best to shoot up the lead I have and replace it with plated.

Click to expand...

Here's a pair of pennies.

I am not sure I understand your concern about reloading lead bullets in the basement. The real hazards you have regarding lead (assuming you don't have an indoor range in your house) is residues containing lead in spent cases and a little one playing with brass or lead bullets. Using a dry tumbler to clean the cases generates dust that has those residues. The handling hazard is both ingesting the projectiles as well as putting fingers in the mouth our food after handling brass or bullets. We as adults face the same hazard and it is addressed by washing our hands after handling.

You may as well add powder and primers to your list. Eating those is not healthy for a child either.

I think cleaning our guns in the house presents a higher potential hazard (not lead, but solvents in the air) than reloading using lead projectiles (or relading, period). Lead bullets don't give off lead gas. Seating and crimping lead bullets does not generate lead gas or dust.

The same precautions we use for cleaners (bleach, oven cleaner, etc) applied to reloading components will safeguard our kids and grandkids (I have my grandson 30+ hrs per week as both parents work day shift). I reload in the house and cast lead alloys in the garage.

The lead hazards we face as reloaders and high volume shooters are:
1. inhaled brass tumbler dust
2. lead picked up from handling bullets and cases, then not washing our hands
3. primer residue inhaled when shooting at indoor ranges.

Click to expand...

That is definitely food for thought. The reason I think plated would be better is that it represents the low hanging fruit. Plated bullets are only a little bit more expensive than plain lead, and they essentially eliminate bullet handling as a source of lead on your hands.

I had not really thought about handling spent cases but you make a very good point. I may have to put the tumbler out in the garage...which suits me fine because my tumbler makes as much noise as a running chainsaw, only higher pitched and more annoying.

sargents1 said:

Plated bullets are only a little bit more expensive than plain lead, and they essentially eliminate bullet handling as a source of lead on your hands.

I had not really thought about handling spent cases but you make a very good point. I may have to put the tumbler out in the garage...which suits me fine because my tumbler makes as much noise as a running chainsaw, only higher pitched and more annoying.

Click to expand...

I use plated as a stop-gap for leading problems until I get things tuned in a gun. I would also use them if I shot at a range that requires totally encased bullets. Some ranges are like that, but not the one I am a member of.

Some folks use mineral spirits in their tumbler media to control dust. I through a beach towel over mine, but mainly to dull the noise. I guess it helps with dust, though I have not noticed any. I do wash up after working with the brass and tumbler, as well as after casting, loading, handling components, etc.

UPDATE:

I have had a chance to shoot the Glock 20 a bit more and I have to say I am impressed. Its relatively soft shooting, accurate and fun. I have found that if I am not on top of my game, I tend to pull (or maybe push?) my shots to the left. But when I do my job, it shoots to the point of aim.

I have made up several batches of handloads for target/competition and so far everything I have put thru it feeds and shoots fine. My handloads have been mostly 180gr plated or FMJ rounds. We chrono'd them and they were running between 1050 and 1200ft/s depending on the particular powder brand/charge that I was using on that batch. There is a noticeable difference between 1050ft/s and 1200ft/s but neither is going to knock your socks off.

I also got a batch of Winchester Silvertip 175gr JHP's for HD use. I kind of expected these to be a bit hotter, not sure why, but they are not bad at all. Once I looked up the ballistics again I found out the reason why. Winchester rates them at 1290ft/s from a 5.5in barrel. Most factory published ballistics are a little optimistic, so figure a real-life velocity of 1200-1250ft/s and these are not much (if at all) more than my hotter handloads. I figure these are pretty much ideal for defensive use against 2-legged predators. If I were going to load up for bear, I would probably load up a 180gr FMJ with a max load of Blue Dot. Speaking of Blue Dot, this powder seems to perform pretty well. I was getting pretty close to book numbers using book loads of Blue Dot. Makes a nice Booming report at the range. Good stuff.

Since the last Post I have made a few changes to the gun.

First off, I put the 3.5lb Lone Wolf connector in and tried it. It was Ok, but during a trip to the Saturday plate shoot, I had an accidental double-tap. I guess maybe this is what some folks call "riding the reset". I have experienced this before when shooting Cliff's M&P40 which has a fairly light trigger and I don't like it. I want my guns to go bang when I tell them to, and Only when I tell them to. So, the 3.5# connector came out and the stock connector went back in. Now the gun doesn't go off when I ham-fist the trigger mid-shot-string. I do tend to shoot to the left (as noted before) with the heavier trigger, but I am working on that. This is no fault of the Lone Wolf connector, it is what they claim it is. Its just not for me.

Next up I got a 22lb recoil spring and stainless steel guide rod. Both of these are of debatable value. Some folks claim that a heavier spring works better with hotloads because it keeps the firing chamber sealed until the bullet leaves the barrel. Other folks say that is nonsense and that slide mass, friction and fairy elves have more to do with it. I have no idea. I do know that my walled is about 30$ lighter due to these items and my Glock runs just fine (as it did before).

Some folks also claim that the heavier spring saves some wear and tear on the frame because it better matches the recoil impulse of the 10mm cartridge. Again, who the heck knows, Glocks are supposed to run for many thousands of rounds stock, so any difference is likely to be small. I do think that since Glock puts the same 17lb recoil spring in ALL of their full sized guns, 9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP and 10mm, the 10mm might be a bit under-sprung.

Anyway, the Recoil spring and Guide Rod were pretty cheap and they work well enough, so I dont mind having spent 30$ or so on them.

Other stuff:
The Blackhawk Serpa holster I got for the G20 is Great!. Its fast, secure and cheap. What's not to like? The Blackhawk mag holsters are also very nice, but the Serpa is Soooooo much better than the old nylon-and-velcro holster that I had.

I also shot a 3-Gun match with the Glock and it worked flawlessly. Many thanks to Joe Pearson, Jeff Drumm and all of the folks at the ACF&GA range for their hard work. Videos are up on my Youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sargents77?feature=mhee#p/u/4/h15CjeXabgE

I will see if I can post up some more pictures pretty soon. I still need to get to the range and do some paper punching to really see what I can do with this thing. So far so good.

This is really a good post with a lot of food for thought. I appreciate the viewpoints because I want to start reloading my own cartridges and I also have a brother who had to have high serum levels of lead purged from his bloodstream as a child. He had the high lead levels because - just like the warnings say - the lead-based paint in my parent's first house tasted "sweet" to him. It was on the window sashes in his bedroom and a couple of the railings, including on the back porch railings, near where he played more or less unsupervised for long periods of time. Who knew that the kid sitting in the backyard was harming themself? Why on Earth did the windowsill have that mark on it? By the time my parents really understood what he was doing, his serum lead levels were so high he needed several very very painful abatement treatments as a young child. It's not a joke.

He's OK today. Once they realized and understood what he was doing they put a very quick stop to it, but nobody had even warned them about it back in 1979.

I don't want to be alarmist but on the other hand I don't want to see anyone else's kid have to go through what my brother went through to "get the lead out" of his system.

The Glock 20sf is the finest fighting handgun is the world today jmvho.
The trade out barrel is a KKM no other will do. The lone wolf is foreign made and the chambers are tolerable.
With the KKM if there is a problem you can call the folks who made the barrel.
The 20sf will take the 10mm, 40 S&W and .357Sig. I color the base plates not to mix which mags go with either barrel.

I like nice wood and shinny metal ,but I carry a G-22 every day on duty and yea ,it's square ,ulugy but works every time and is more accurate than I can hold it to.For the money I don't think you can buy a better more reliable ,accurate handgun anywhere .I'd like to have a G-20 just because of the power of the 10 MM ,but theres more .40 S&W handguns in police holsters in this country than any other caliber ,and the majority of them are glocks and that speaks for it's self.
Lou

Long term update.

I got a longslide kit from lone wolf and tested itout a couple weeks back. Range report below.

I posted this repoet over on thehighroad.com...that version has pics. (The pic links did not come thru when i cut and pasted the rest)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=771798

The weather finally cooperated and I got out to the range.

I brought three handloads with me to test out

Hornady 155gr XTPs over 800X
Hornady 200gr XTPs over AA#9
Magtech 180gr FMJ over Alliant 2400

I have never used 800X before because the flakes are so coarse that you need to hand measure the charges. I usually load using my Dillon SDB press, so 800x usually gets overlooked.

- For the 155gr loads, I made up series of charges starting at 0.5gr under max and working up to 0.2gr over max. All data came from the Hornady manual, so look there for specific charges.
- The 200gr Hornady XTP was AA#9 at 0.2gr under Max. I did not mess with this charge, I just loaded a batch up that charge and called it good. I have had good results with AA#9 in the past using my std length barrel and I expected good things from this.
- The Magtech 180gr fmj was on top of a charge 2400 that was 0.2gr under max. This was just to see how 2400 works with 10mm. I have used 2400 in the past with my 45 Colt and it works ok for that.

Here is a sample of the data.

155gr Horn XTP at 0.5gr under max: 1550 / 1582 / 1522 / 1568 / 1560 Avg = 1556ft/s
Yeah, 1556ft/s Avg from a half a grain under max. My eyes just about bugged out when I saw these #s.

Next up was the same 155gr XTP over a charge that was 0.2gr under max:
1638 / 1644 / 1651 / 1581 , avg = 1629 ft/s
(Giggling at this point)

155gr XTP @ Max charge of 800X
1669 / 1603 / 1597 / 1672, avg = 1635 ft/s

I was just about hooting and hollering at this point. I kept wondering if I was going to break 1700ft/s. In the end It was just shy of that, but not by much. Going by the Avg velocity, that max charge of 800x is running about 920ft-lb at the muzzle .

I get goose bumps looking at that number. I'm not even sure if an XTP will hold together at that speed when it hits. In fact I am pretty sure it wont, but Damnn! That's Fast!

I did chrono one of the +0.2gr over max loads, but I was only able to get one of those to fire in the new Longslide setup. I was having trouble getting consistent ignition because I had loaded these with WLP primers and they are apparently harder than some others. Also, the striker that came with my LW Longslide seems to not hit as hard as the OEM Glock striker. Anyway, one of the over-max loads did fire and it ran 1630ft/s. I took the fact that I couldnt get the +p loads to fire as a sign-from-on-high and quit while i was ahead.

Other data from that day:
200gr Horn XTP over AA#9
1287 / 1311 / 1307 / 1303 / 1299 / 1305 / 1300, avg = 1302ft/s [753 ft-lb]
This load was very consistent and gave really good velocity. This would make a great hunting load. Very pleased, especially because it is not a Max charge.

Last up was the Magtech 180's over 2400. This load was kind of "meh". Its not especially fast, I have pushed this same bullet faster from a stock 4.6 in barrel using Blue Dot and AA#9.
1225 / 1225 / 1136 / 1212 / 1223, Avg= 1204 ft/s [579 ft-lb]

I did remember to snap a picture of the Chrono after blasting one of the 800X loads over it


This is one of the pieces of brass (New Starline nickle-plated) after launching a 155gr bullet at warp speed. Flawless. No Smilie-face, no bulge. Just good used brass.



And here she is, the long-slide Blaster of Doom.


Suffice to say, I am really pleased with this setup and I will be using more 800X in the future.

sargents1 said:

I get goose bumps looking at that number. I'm not even sure if an XTP will hold together at that speed when it hits. In fact I am pretty sure it wont, but Damnn! That's Fast!

Click to expand...

Gotta love 10mm. I personally have always thought the 20 is the optimum platform for the 10mm and actually I have been quite impressed with the 29 as well. Especially since they introduced the SF's. The perfect "woods" gun in my areas of existence.

Get a chance to shoot your buddies FN yet? Interesting guns, while not for me, they are fun to shoot. There's another nasty little round in that 5.7x28! Every time I handle a PS90 I cant quit gazing at the mag trying to figure out why it works....

Glad to hear the Glock 20 is working well for you. I have the 19 and 26 gen. 4, they are great guns. Mine have Storm Lake barrels because 95% of my shooting is with lead. Storm Lake will take care of you after the sale. I sent both barrels back to have the throats opened up a bit for my lead slugs. They turned it around in record time and now my pistols are shooting great.