Brass Grip Frame?

I bought an old model Blackhawk tonight and I'm trying to figure out what I have. The person who sold it to the shop I bought it from told them it was new in the box and unfired. I don't believe thats true, but the gun is interesting. I paid $750 for it, not because I thought that was a great deal, but because the gun has me curious.

The box says it is a BKH36. It is a 6.5" 357 Old Model Blackhawk with an extra 9mm cylinder, and it has a brass grip frame. It looks to be unfired and has the box and all the original paperwork. The extra cylinder is in a red felt bag and inside a small cardboard box. The numbers on both cylinders match the gun. The serial number is 31-41725

Here are my questions:

Shouldn't the box say BKH36X or BKH36B?

The brass grip frame has a square back trigger guard like a Super Blackhawk and has Super Blackhawk size grips on it.

The Brass Grip Frame says MR-3DB on it under the grips.

Does this sound like it came from Ruger this way?

Any insight anyone can provide would be appreciated. Thank you.

It may have come that way but likely won't letter as brass. Ruger never "officially" cataloged brass frame convertibles (though quite a few, mostly in .45, have been observed). So it will likely letter as a BKH36X (the X and/or B would only be noted on the shipper, the yellow boxes were all just BKH36). The gun is not listed in JD's book where all the BKH36B guns are listed on page 373 and the highest one is 31-40148.

But it sounds like a nice gun!

Well just because it isn't in JD's book doesn't mean it isn't right......seems like a lot of my RARE ones are not in the book.....but will letter :shock: :shock: :shock: thank goodness......the first "chrome gun" I bought wasn't on the list but still lettered.....ya just never know till ya ask....RR.

Rod, I like your style and the resulting proposal and instruction. Worked for me too! 8)

chet15 said:

radicalrod said:

Well just because it isn't in JD's book doesn't mean it isn't right......seems like a lot of my RARE ones are not in the book.....but will letter :shock: :shock: :shock: thank goodness......the first "chrome gun" I bought wasn't on the list but still lettered.....ya just never know till ya ask....RR.

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Right. I don't believe any of JD's pictured brass frame guns in his latest book are in his lists either. Something is definitely amiss.
Only a factory letter will tell you what you may have. Sadly, it may not tell you the whole story. But some day, maybe that will change. After all, JD did find the inspector's notes on the previously unverifiable brass framed Super Blackhawks. Maybe that's where a person starts looking???
Chet15

The Brass Grip Frames were sold as "owner installed accessories", as well.



Many Ruger Collectors have one or two in their collections.



JMHO,

flatgate

We going to pull the grip frame and see what the bottom of the cylinder frame looks like so far as blue coverage?
Is it incomplete blueing is an indicator that it was originally built as a steel frame gun? Then solid full cover blue is an indicator that it was originally a brassie? Or is it the other way? :?

Full bluing on the bottom of the cylinder frame could suggest it was a factory brassie, but you really need the factory to verify whether or not it will letter as a brassie if it really matters to you. As some have already mentioned above, it would be the only convertible brassie known to exist, and one of only a few hundred .357 brassies even if it is not a convertible. Are you thinking of selling it? You should really post some pictures.

Axe, with a Blackhawk that axiom doesn't really apply. The Blackhawks had aluminum grip frames and one doesn't dip an aluminum grip frame in hot bluing salts....

Supers! The blued receiver rule applies to the brass Supers since the blued guns had the steel grip frame "match polished" to the cylinder frame then blued while still being "together".

flatgate

Good call, Flatgate. Remember Stalwarts, hold your excitement on these.........Nearly forty years and multiple hands with possible owners, dealers and "touchers". A lot of time during which memories fade, conscious acts of change are forgotten and new owner's wishes prevail without substance. I hope this is a real rarity for you, however. 8)

I never said it is not right - I said it may have come that way but probably will not letter as a brass frame gun. All the brass frame convertibles I've ever called about confirm as X but not B. The grip frame may have been factory-installed, but not noted in the catalog number. Who knows why - perhaps because they didn't have instructions on how to note BX or XB guns... or maybe because they had only had 6 characters for catalog numbers in the log book... or they might have even been told to pull alloy frames off of guns that were already assembled and logged. I suspect that in late 1972/early 1973, Ruger was putting leftover brass grip frames on a lot of guns just to get rid of obsolete parts that were of no use for building the upcoming New Models. WBR probably said to use 'em up since he had no application for recycled brass on New Models but XR3-RED grip frames would melt down into the same alloy needed for casting the NM grip frames. They still didn't fully dispose of their inventory this way because you could still order a MR-3DB as a part at least as late as 1975.

So yes, it is worth checking on and keeping one's fingers crossed, but it shouldn't be a big surprise if it cannot be confirmed.

Ah, but the sorrow for all of us, was the final fate of the 4x4x4 container that was full of MR3DB frames and scrapped out, finally, allegedly because of the issue of polishing ferrous and non-ferrous metals.........When I discussed with Stephen Vogel, he confirmed, but was unsure of the final destination of the container. I later heard either Sile or Sarco..........What a waste..........Sold for scrap. :roll: :shock: :x I never heard of the frames being offered as accessories in quantity by either.

Yeowwwwwwwwww.... Schooled again! :? Thanks flatgate!
Another reason to come here every day and read a bit...

HAWKEYE#28 said:

A lot of time during which memories fade, conscious acts of change are forgotten and new owner's wishes prevail without substance.

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I don't know that i have read anything on an internet forum which was stated so well.

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it. I am the second owner of this gun. Got to talk to the original owner today. I now believe completely that it did in fact come new from ruger as a brass convertible. Doubt from what I've learned here that Ruger will confirm it though. I will call them and ask, but I don't have much hope.

Please share your "updated knowledge" about your very interesting Blackhawk.

We Collectors need all the information we can acquire!

Thanks,

flatgate

:shock: Just aquired 45-22291 and it came right from Ruger according to it's history with the brass on it! I consider it to be #10 of the set if you are collecting the brass...RB...BTW...anyone out there got a nice BKH42B in a nice crisp box they want to part with???

RB, are you implying 45-22291 is a convertible?

flatgate

:shock: Yes, Carl that's the way it was sold to me...BX..It even has some air bubble holes in the brass frame just above the trigger below the caliber marking, like it was one they finally buffed up and stuck on a gun to get rid of...RB.

I am not an expert, but it seems to me that air (gas) bubbles in a piece of cast metal would be a serious flaw that would cause the casting to be discarded. A visual inspection cannot reveal if the bubbles go completely through the piece. A gripframe has some fairly thin areas that would be too delicate if there were voids inside the metal.