C&R rifle selling-trading opinions.........

Just wanted some opinions on how we can clarify the ATF's wording of the information in the book and the website.

I have a bunch of C&R eligible rifles that I have been slowly selling, all of which I purchased years prior to my C&R 03 License approval this past March. In other words, I got my C&R in March of 2011, but have rifles I have owned since 2004 or before.

I have been entering all of the sales of these rifles in my Bound Book as "owned prior to C&R license". I just like to be throrough and figure there's no harm in entering this info. I only used my C&R to buy 1 S&W revolver so far, so my entire bound book is filled with "owned prior to C&R" dispositions.

I will continue to do so, but many people , including an 01 FFL, have told me I do not need to enter the sale of C&R eligible firearms if they were owned prior to obtaining the C&R license. The ATF law states "The disposition of any firearms Curio & Relics shall be entered in the Bound Book". I take that to mean any C&R's, not just ones bought while the license was current.

Any firearm you entered into the boundbook no matter when you bought it should have a disposition added if you sell it.

That was my whole clarification issue, I call and email the ATF and depending on who responds, the answers are different.

The only consistent answer I get is that I do not need to log in any C&R firearms I owned prior to getting the C&R as "acquisitions". Half the time I am told I need to log them when I sell them, though........and the other half tell me I do not need to log pre-existing C&R's that are sold. It depends on how you interpret the wording, it would seem when they say "Sale of any firearms Curio & Relic must be logged" it would apply to all of them regardless of when I got them. Others interpret it as any C&R bought using the license.

I guess the easy answer is to just log all the sales and write "owned prior to C&R" like I had been doing, but for years I have been reading posts with this question on any forum that has a C&R section.

I have seen this discussed on other forums and the folks in the know say to do as you are doing.
And that's what I'm doing also.

Pete

Thanks for the tips 8) I plan on liquidating much of my C&R rifle collection, I just hope the ATF doesn't think I'm trying to be a "dealer" if they inspect my book with 30+ entries of "owned prior to C&R" within a 3 month period :?

stantheman86 said:

Thanks for the tips 8) I plan on liquidating much of my C&R rifle collection, I just hope the ATF doesn't think I'm trying to be a "dealer" if they inspect my book with 30+ entries of "owned prior to C&R" within a 3 month period :?

Click to expand...

My ATF conversation & explanation with my 03 was:

If a firearm was bought prior, it does NOT go into the books.

If it IS in the books (as in aquired during said 03 held) then it must be recorded as a disposition when sold

Something can NOT be "disposed" of if it isn't there to begin with

Xsales

Thanks for the reply, it makes a lot of sense, did an ATF agent or employee say this?

I was told this also by the ATF person when I called, but the email I sent was answered with "all C&R's must be logged when you sell them".

The above info does seem like it makes sense.......if it wasn't "acquired" with the C&R, how can it be a "disposition"?

stantheman86 said:

Thanks for the reply, it makes a lot of sense, did an ATF agent or employee say this?

I was told this also by the ATF person when I called, but the email I sent was answered with "all C&R's must be logged when you sell them".

The above info does seem like it makes sense.......if it wasn't "acquired" with the C&R, how can it be a "disposition"?

Click to expand...

I spoke with an ATF agent for this info and was explained in great detail as stated and what I go by for my books

Again this point "all C&R's must be logged when you sell them" is correct IF they ere IN the book to begin with, if not then no issue and no disposition

It really is not complicated and I would not make it harder than what it is

Xsales

Thanks again for the info, since I only have 1 revolver as an acquisition, this info makes my books a lot easier to manage now.

I am probably selling at least 20 more C&R eligible rifles that I have had for years, well before my C&R, so it makes things easier.

Selling the 20 should be of no issue

Also, when selling it IS good to have a C&R for the receiving C&R or 01 FFL

Makes things up front legit and honest

The C&R has been a very good thing

If you have a list of the guns you are selling, I'd like to take a look

[email protected]

I'd like to see the list too. [email protected]

(I also have a C&R license, and I DID NOT enter any guns in my book that I had prior to getting my license). Even without a C&R, any individual can sell any of their guns to anyone else as long as interstate sales go through an FFL or, if eligible, a C&R license holder.

Thanks for the added info, I have since "cleaned up" my bound book, with all the useless "owned prior to C&R" entries and now have just the 1 entry, for a S&W made in 1919 that I bought a few months back. SO much easier to keep track of now, and it makes sense.........the ATF says you don't need to log pre-existing C&R firearms, and thus if it was never logged in, it can't be logged out.

As for the list of C&R rifles, I do not have a "list" at this time, I am selling them on GunBroker one or two at a time since this winter I sold a bunch of "shooter grade" bolt guns and it was a huge inconvenience to ship a dozen rifles out in a 2 day period. I just don't have the time to be selling that many at a time. My GB user name is the same as my name here, if you do a search for my auctions you can see if I listed anything. If you are interested in Mosin rifles, I will have a few good ones for sale shortly.

I too, have a "few" eligible guns, and my 03FFL is not affected. Primarily, I have them documented as being owned BEFORE my FFL date. This was done merely by having my inventory list (same info as my 'bound book') notarized and dated prior to the FFL date. Simple and legal in any state.

Periodically have your printed inventory list notarized and file it for insurance or ATFE purposes. It's a legal and sensible $1.00 solution that just might save your bacon.