Ross Gun- thanks TA Workman-Ivory added

Gentlemen, I was able to pick up the 357 flat top that TA pointed out as being available several weeks ago. As you remember, out of curiosity I saw that the gun have been sold but that the seller would take back up offers. I figured what the heck, I placed a back up offer and he contacted me and told me it was mine if I wanted it. Several guys noted that the gun may have been reblued and that the ER is off the wrong type. I looked in my Dougan book and while it gives the serial number range of the Ross guns I could not determine if they were true type one guns with the serrated button ER or if they were Type one transition guns with the type 2 ER. Either way I am tickled pink with the condition of the gun.







I guess the lesson I learned is to not give up too early or to not be afraid to ask!

Robb,
Your more than welcome!
Glad it ended up in the family!
Terry

Congrats! A nice gun and rare find!!

Yes, The Ross variation is a true Type 1, so later parts should not appear on that unless for some reason you find that the gun was shipped later than it should have. The Ross sn range is 14684 to 15483 and were built at the time 4684 to 5483 were built, so with the Type 1 being known up to 7309, all the Ross guns should have Type 1 parts.
Chet15

Looks like patience and optimism won out! Great gun! 8)

Thanks Chet15, I will continue to try and find a correct ER but I will make sure anyone who asks knows that I installed the rod after I got the gun.

Robb

Great find Robb! Now,, enjoy it as it is,, and don't let it become a "project" gun for ya! Too few "Ross's" out there.

Nah, this one is safe Ty. I picked up a Type 1 transition that has a nice age patina to it that will stay a 357 as well but it will take on the shooter status. Knowing me, this will move to a true collector type who is more worthy of having it.

Robb Barnes said:

Thanks Chet15, I will continue to try and find a correct ER but I will make sure anyone who asks knows that I installed the rod after I got the gun.

Robb

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You might try seeing when it was shipped from the factory though. If it left in June 1956 with the majority of the Ross guns, it would definitely have early parts. Once you get to about August/September 1956 you could start getting into the large button.
Chet15

Point well taken Chet15. I will call the plant and request the letter from records.

A lotta good things happen on THE forum ---its got good folks :!: :!:

Chet, I had wondered about that button.

PM sent.

Nice revolver

Ale-8(1) said:

Chet, I had wondered about that button.
PM sent.

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Ale-8(1), PM sent. And your question brings up a really interesting topic that I'm not sure anybody has ever thought of before.

When the Ross variation was first discovered by H.W. "Bill" Ross, it was a gun with Type 1 features but which was serial numbered way outside the Type 1 variation, from 14684 to 15483. So its always been assumed that all the Ross guns should have Type 1 features....because thats how 99% of them apparently look.
But about 30 years ago Bud Faulk (Faulk's Collectors' Service) reported #15023 has having features of a Type 2 .357 flattop. A pretty unusual gun and I had always thought that maybe 15023 was a duplicate of a duplicate in a sense...as in Ruger making #15023 at one time and then two years later forgetting about the earlier Ross sn'd guns, so built another). 15023 was mfg. 9/25/57 and shipped two days later, so its Type 2 features including later front sight blade and base would be congruent with the variation being produced at that time. Here's the kicker...JD's addendum lists 14 "Ross" guns that were shipped later than June 1956 which is the month that most of the Ross guns must have been mfg'd. These include the following, w/ mfg. dates:

14765 8/2/57
14803 1/29/57
14825 2/14/57
15018 12/10/57
15031 1/16/57
15067 12/10/57
15151 1/29/57
15153 7/26/57
15252 1/6/58
15298 2/14/57
15307 1/16/57
15350 9/11/56 (may be a true Type 1)
15352 1/16/58
and
15399 1/6/58

Since JD missed 15023 I presume there will be others as well. In fact, now I'm wondering if any of the Ross sn range guns shipped 1957 and later have the later front sight, because the large button is a definite possibility!!. Interesting revelation there and one that nobody has really thought about before. Everybody just presumes a .357 in that sn range should have Type 1 features.
So now....the correct description of a "Ross" variety gun should be a gun within that 14684 to 15483 sn range (I.M.O. it is the sn range that makes a Ross since Ruger had a definite issue there...Bill Ross just didn't know then that some of them were mfg. late) and that the Ross guns in rare cases may have been shipped late enough to have later parts. Doesn't that turn the collecting world upside down???
Now we just need to determine for sure when the large button appeared on the .357 Blackhawk. When doing research on Single-Sixes I was able to get that pretty well pinpointed, but the .357 may be slightly off from that.
Chet15

Ah, you're ahead of me.

As I mentioned in my PM response to the above, my initial thought is that a ROSS is defined by its components AND its serial number, with the ship date being inconsequential. This is because what makes it a ROSS is that it has Type I parts on a Type II serial number. Any gun within the ROSS serial number range having Type II parts is merely a Type II gun, but of special interest brcause of its placement in the numbering series.

Yes, it will be interesting to see the comments on this. I've been wondering when this would come up.



Edited to add that it's really the "squiggly lines" front sight that is the key piece on a ROSS gun. (Thanks, Dan)

Well I have 15484 at home waiting for the discovery of 15483 ROSS variation.....certainly would be a nice pairing.....RR.

Wouldn't you like to find 5484, too?

5490's on Bob's List, shipped in May of 1956.

Ale-8(1) said:

Yes, it will be interesting to see the comments on this. I've been wondering when this would come up.

Edited to add that it's really the "squiggly lines" front sight that is the key piece on a ROSS gun. (Thanks, Dan)

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Yes, will be interesting. I think the thought of a Type 1A Ross (with large button) is pretty intriguing. Of the listing above though, none of the serial numbers come up in my notes.
And wish I knew where that 15023 was today as it is at least a great conversation piece. And if its not a ROSS, do we dare call it an "out-of-sequence" serial number gun....all the Ross's are that really.
Just thinking about this a little more, the same thing kinda happened with the 10/22 in 1964, Ruger building 10/22's with numbers from 89000 to 90146 (also two years before they should have been made...in the .44 Carbine s/n sequence). There isn't much attention paid to those guns either...and in fact, collectors pay a lot more attention to the guns that duplicated them a few years later (D89000 to D90146). But I know one RF member here who cherishes his #89066 matched 10/22 Carbine/.44 Carbine pair. Hmm...the #66 is also indicative of this RF member's subscription number.
Chet15

I am waiting on a call back and a letter from the Ruger records department on the ship date of the gun. I will let you collector stalwarts know what the result is and you more knowledgeable folks can determine if I throw the baby out with the bathwater or if it is worth hanging on to. :lol: If I am lucky, maybe it will be an after midyear ship date so I can quit begging for a serrated ER!

Robb

Okay here is the word from Ruger, the gun shipped in June of 1956. The great lady is sending me a letter to confirm this so now it is back to the books to see if there is any further clarification as the the ER question. You gents with much more collector knowledge can help fill in the gaps as well.

Robb Barnes said:

Okay here is the word from Ruger, the gun shipped in June of 1956. The great lady is sending me a letter to confirm this so now it is back to the books to see if there is any further clarification as the the ER question. You gents with much more collector knowledge can help fill in the gaps as well.

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With a June 1956 ship date, your gun begs for a small button ejector rod.
Chet15